FanNation

Dookie: Here We Go Steelers said 07/21, 10:48 AM
Well chosen and argued Emperor (as always), but I'm going to have to go with a guy that has just as many gold gloves but in less years.

My guy won his 12 consecutive Gold Gloves from 1961-1972. My guy's career started in 1955 so the no golden glove award also applies to him as well.

My guy played in 4 less seasons but had 71 more outfield putouts than Mays had.

My guy had what is considered the best arm in baseball history, as evidenced by leading the league in outfield assists in 5 seasons (NL record).

My guy was tragically killed in a plane crash following the 1972 season. If he wouldn't have died on that plane crash, he would have had a great chance to break the tie with Mays and have the most gold gloves in the history of the game.

Who is my guy? My guys is none other than Roberto Clemente, one of the most underrated players in the game of baseball, and certainly one of the best, if not the best defensive outfielders in the history of MLB

Dookie: Here We Go Steelers said 07/21, 11:22 AM
Sorry about the 71 more putouts, that should read 71 more assists (for those like me who get confused, a putout is when you make a catch, an assist is when you throw a guy out at a base or the plate)

Mays does have many more putouts than Clemente, but Mays was a CFer and Roberto was a RFer. CFers have more attempts, and therefore they will have more putouts.

In the same breath, that make the fact that Roberto had 71 more assists in many less attempts shows he made the most of almost every opportunity he had.

His mere presence in right field made opposing batters less likely to try and run on his arm.

For example, Clemente's 4696 outfield putouts added to his 140 errors is 4836 attempts. Willie Mays had over 7200 attempts in his 22 year career.

What this argument comes down to is one's ability to run down balls and the others ability to throw out guys at the plate and prevent extra bases from being stolen off his pitchers.

Many players have the ability to run down balls that no one thought would be caught. Very few players in the game of baseball have ever had the arm Clemente possessed.

That arm makes him the greatest defensive outfielder in the game

Dookie: Here We Go Steelers said 07/21, 12:13 PM
Mays is better than Roberto with offensive numbers, no doubt, but defensively speaking, Roberto is the better of the 2.

When I ask you, name some top defensive CF, names like Mays, Edmunds, Griffey Jr, Speaker etc.
What about top defensive RF? How many other names come to mind besides Roberto?

How overrated of a stat can putouts be?
Andruw Jones had 400+ putouts for 5 years in a row from 98-2002. Willie Mays had only 400+ putouts 6 years total in his career

Willie's fielding % was only .008 better than Clemente's. Again, Mays had nearly 2500 more attempts more than Clemente, so each error Clemente had was magnified. for the .008 difference in fielding percentage, Mays would have only had to commit less than 2.5 errors more a season to have the same fielding percentage as Clemente. Again this difference is merely moot.
Also, keep in mind that errors can be accumulated on throws in. As Clemente was much more aggressive with his arm, he racked up more errors throwing than he did on catching balls.

As there is no debating the stronger arm, Clemente also had speed to run down balls hit to him. Don't let the throwing errors fool you into thinking he didn't have a good glove