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  • July 23, 2008 11:16 AM ET

2008 NFL Division Rankings: NFC North

BuffaloFan (31-23-1) vs Porkins (138-13-1)
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*Rules: 1st argument- put in your rankings
2nd and 3rd- argue opinion

1. Green Bay Packers
2. Minnesota Vikings
3. Detroit Lions
4. Chicago Bears


1-Packers
2-Vikes
3-Bears
4-Lions

It's going to be very close at the top of the division though. It's tempting to put Minny on top, but even without Favre the Pack has enough to hold on...


I agree with you on GB and MIN....it'll be a close one, but I thing GB has an edge.

DET vs CHI

DET- The reason why I'm going with Detroit is mainly because they have a better offense (better QB, WR's, RB's). Both teams had terrible defensive performances last year, both struggled with the run game, and both finished 7-9. DET is also going with a more balanced attack instead of the pass-happy offense they were doing last year. DET started of 6-2 last year, then went on a downwhirl spiral. I am very confident they will step up on the defensive side of the ball and take more pressure off Jon Kitna in the balanced attack offense.

CHI- was a huge dissapoinment last year. They went from NFC Champs to last in the NFC North. They have SERIOUS QB ISSUES and the defense didn't take over either. Devin Hester led the team in TD's. What does that say about a team when your return man has more TD's than anyone else on the team? Bottom line....IF they find some consistency at the QB position and the defense picks up, they might improve to a .500 team.


It's easy to forget that Chicago is only two years removed from a SB appearance.

They have question marks, but their D was crippled by injuries last season. It's unlikely that they'll have to weather that kind of storm again.

-Even with key guys out, they STILL had a better D than the Lions who were DEAD LAST in the NFL. It's not reasonable to compare the two situations on defense- both were bad, but for very different reasons. And the Bears are far more likely to rebound.

-The Bears have a monster edge in special teams with Hester returning.

-As for offense, they aren't to win any beauty contests, but with a vastly improved running game and a solid #1 in Booker, it's really about avoiding mistakes.

Detroit's problems start with Matt Millen. He's an idiot and as long as he's making decisions the Lions are screwed.

With Martz gone, you won't see the same wide open offense as last year, and that minimizes the benefits of WR depth. And what do mean they have better RBs??

Even with Cherilus, their O-line is an abomination- Kitna may be killed this year, just to warn you.

Oh, and the Lions "better offense"...Only scored TWELVE more points than CHI in '07.


I do expect Chicago's defense to rebound. But I'm still concered about their QB issues. Let's take a look at their stats:
Kyle Orton: 3TDS- 2 NTS- 478YDS- 73.9RTG
Rex Grossman: 4TDS- 7INTS- 1,411YDS- 66.4RTG

Their offensive line is terrible. Overall, they finished 26th in total yards, but were really bad running the ball, finishing 30th in rushing yards (LAST in the NFL in yards per carry, tied for 25th in rushing yards). They finished a little better in passing numbers with 15th in yards and 10th in TD passes, but that is only because they were 10th in pass attempts and they were a brutal 24th in sacks allowed.
So even with Booker, they really aren't going anywhere. Defenses will attack the run twice as hard because they know CHI can't pass for nothing.

Detroit had an ugly offensive line too. They did give up the most sacks last year, but they went and did something about that problem. DET drafted OT Gosder Cherilus in the 1st round, and he'll help with the right side of the line. Kitna did well last year (even while he was getting killed), he threw for 4,068yds, 18TDs, 20INTs, and a 80.9RTG. The better QB wins my vote on this TD. CHI is way to inconsistent to get 3rd.


Detroit drafted Cherilus. Good for them. Chicago drafted 2 tackles (Wiiliams and Barton) and a guard (Adams).

Plus, they still have pro-bowl center Olin Kreutz. However bad the Bears' line may be, Detroit's is FAR worse. Add to that the fact that Kitna is 36 years old and was never a scrambler even when he was young...That spells TROUBLE.

Look:

You keep saying that Chicago sucked offensively while the Lions were good. But all the yardage in the world doesn't mean jack without points. Look at 2007:

Team--Pts Scored--Pts Allowed
DET--346--444
CHI--334--348

Detroit was so much better, yet they only outscored CHI by 12?? And look at the relative defenses. DET gave up 96 MORE points!

Despite all the KEY injuries, the Bears' point differential was -4.

The Lions' was -98.
Looks to me like DET was lucky to win 7 with numbers like that.

DET gets the edge at QB, but don't pretend their running game has a verified threat. Smith MIGHT be good, but he's a rookie just like Forte.

Forte/ Jones have a BETTER O-line and are every bit as good as Smith/ Bell

The key is the Bears have a HUGE advantage on DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS.

That's why they take 3rd.

Comments (30) Add A Comment

July 23, 2008  11:28 AM ET
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seems to me this is pointless. Why argue who sucks more? Bears or Lions. Can't vote for this one.

July 23, 2008  11:44 AM ET
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Yeah, I agree kinda w/ PensFan....more an argument over who sucks more between the Bears & Lions...and I'm tempted to say the Lions. Also by looking at the Packers schedule I'm tempted to put the Vikes at #1, but I'll let you guys convince me.

July 23, 2008  11:47 AM ET
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*Yawns* Yet another person who probably listens to ESPN knuckleheads. Why am I not surprised?

July 23, 2008  11:49 AM ET
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seems to me this is pointless. Why argue who sucks more? Bears or Lions. Can't vote for this one.

PensFan#1 | 07/23/08, 11:28 AM


A 7-9 team that has made some improvements and should be a lot healthier than last year may not suck as much as you think.

July 23, 2008  11:50 AM ET
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Stop griping, people. Just play along.

<<<<<<<<<<------------------------ --------------------

July 23, 2008  11:54 AM ET
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i think the bears will come in last... not enough weapons on offense and a defense that is injury prone and aging a bit.... but will wait for arguments.

July 23, 2008  12:17 PM ET
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*Yawns* Yet another person who probably listens to ESPN knuckleheads. Why am I not surprised?

cubs/bears | 07/23/08, 11:47 AM

cubs/bears - You think the Bears will be a .500 team? I'm not convinced they have the offensive weapons to get to .500. You lost Muhs & Berrian, the best WRs you had (though I'll give you guys credit for instantly improving your running game by ditching Benson).

Also, objects in mirror are closer than they appear. 1 game back baby!

July 23, 2008  12:31 PM ET
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Lol I know how much porkins wanted to put Minn at the top but then thought of the 200 packer votes he would lose.

1. Vikings
2. Bears
3. Pack
4. Lions

Sorry I'm not sold on a rookie Q and YES, I WOULD take T Jax over Rogers.

July 23, 2008  12:34 PM ET
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And heres a hint, people ALWAYS predict the standing exactly the same and never change anything and NEVER seem to learn that the NFL changes year to year more than any league. On average, over HALF of the playoff teams turnover each year since 2000.

July 23, 2008  12:39 PM ET
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EFB, would you take Orton or Grossman over Rogers? And what offensive weapons do the Bears have to do anything w/?

July 23, 2008  12:42 PM ET
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"downwhirl spiral" vote right

July 23, 2008  12:47 PM ET
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Sorry I'm not sold on a rookie Q and YES, I WOULD take T Jax over Rogers.

EFB.. JL mr. 5555 | 07/23/08, 12:31 PM
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How about neither. I'd just run the veer.

July 23, 2008  12:50 PM ET
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hey gocoltsgo......do you not no what that means? do you need to go back to school? panzee!

July 23, 2008  01:14 PM ET
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Nope. Grossman and Orton are lower than Rogers but Jackson is above all 3.

July 23, 2008  01:16 PM ET
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Offensive weapons? Go talk to the 2000 Ravens about offensive weapons.

July 23, 2008  01:27 PM ET
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T Jax, Orton, and Grossman over Rodgers?!?! What the he// is that???

July 23, 2008  01:28 PM ET
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T Jax over Rodgers?!?!

Everyone looking at this TD is now dumber because you just said that.

Please, if you have a serious reason I would love to hear it.

July 23, 2008  01:30 PM ET
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cubs/bears - You think the Bears will be a .500 team? I'm not convinced they have the offensive weapons to get to .500. You lost Muhs & Berrian, the best WRs you had (though I'll give you guys credit for instantly improving your running game by ditching Benson).

Also, objects in mirror are closer than they appear. 1 game back baby!
PackBrew42 #4DramaLlama | 07/23/08, 12:17 PM

Actually, yes I do. Injuries absolutely crippled this team last year. When you lose people like Harris, Briggs, Vasher, and Tillman, then your defense will take a big hit. But all of those guys are returning healthy this year. And nobody can say anything about Urlacher. Even while hurt, he had a productive year, especially at the end, where he was an absolute beast. He had 52 tackles, 2 sacks, 4 interceptions, one forced fumble, and an interception returned 85 yards for a touchdown. That was just in the last 5 weeks of the season. This defense is one of the best in the league when healthy. I am not too worried about it.

Berrian is one dimensional. All he represents is a deep zone threat. Yes, he can make some plays. But other than his deep range ability, he has nothing. He is soft, gives up on the ball, and makes drops that would have resulted in sure fire touchdowns. But he gives up on the ball whenever there is the slightest pressure, and that leads to costly interceptions. In all reality, he is overrated.

Muhammad was a disappointment. He was nowhere near as effective as he was in his first Panthers stint, and his age was really beginning to show last year. In his most effective year here, (2006,) he had 863 yards and 5 touchdowns. Not too bad. But here's his other 2 years : 2005- 750 yards, 4 touchdowns 2007- 570 yards, 3 touchdowns. Yes, his averages were high. But that isn't too impressive when you look at his other stats.

A lot of the underachievers and flat out trash is now gone. As stated, Moose is gone, as is Bumson, Walker, and Archuleta. It is addition through subtraction.

As for the rooks, I'm not terribly worried. There will be some growing pains, sure. That comes with any new surroundings and setup. But if these guys perform even half as well as they did at their respective universities, then the offense will actually be decent. And if we have even a decent offense, then this team should fare much better.

And I'm not worried about the Brewers, either. You'll get the Wild Card, unless you find some way to **** it all up. But this Cubs team is far too good to give the division title up to the Brewers. Say what you want about road woes. There are very few teams that have winning road records. Even the Red Sox don't have a winning road record. So once again, I'm not worried.

July 23, 2008  01:44 PM ET
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And I'm not worried about the Brewers, either. You'll get the Wild Card, unless you find some way to **** it all up. But this Cubs team is far too good to give the division title up to the Brewers. Say what you want about road woes. There are very few teams that have winning road records. Even the Red Sox don't have a winning road record. So once again, I'm not worried.

cubs/bears | 07/23/08, 01:30 PM

Fair enough. Though, while the Cubs are in the seat of comfort at the moment, w/ the Brewers 1 game back and Cubs 2 games back, I'd be a bit concerned, especially since the Cubs are on the road alot more this part of the season and go back to Milwaukee twice. Should be an interesting August.

 
July 23, 2008  02:03 PM ET
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Uh, the Cards are 2 games back.

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