- 08/12/2008, 10:32PM ET
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 08/12, 10:32 PM
PG- Chris Paul
Primary point of a point guard? Assists. Lead the NBA in assists? Check. Another key part? Play defense. Lead the NBA in steals? Check. Finally, being able to score 20+ points a game as a point guard? Check.
SG- Kobe Bryant
Who else would it be? He was the MVP of the NBA. He led his team to the NBA Finals. He's great on offense. He's great on defense. He averaged more than 5 assists, and more than 6 rebounds.
SF- LeBron James
Carmel-No. He's not Michael Jordan, but he is LeBron James. He led the Cavaliers to the NBA Finals two years ago. He led the NBA in scoring. He averaged both 7+ assists and 7+ rebounds. Nothing more to say here.
PF- Tim Duncan
One of five guys in the NBA who averaged 11+ rebounds. Also 8th in the NBA in blocks. Only other guy who did that? Howard. Amare isn't as good on defense, neither is KG. That's why I want Duncan: defense.
C- Dwight Howard
He led the NBA in rebounding. He was fifth in the league in blocks. He scored more than 20 a game. Howard is arguably the best big man down low, and is a superb player in the post. Still just 22, he already is having tons of success in the NBA. Also, he played all 82 games last year.
thehemogoblin said 08/12, 11:10 PM
OK, I agree with the four men listed by you not named Tim Duncan. Let's get that out of the way right away.
However, I'm going to make one pivotal adjustment that will change the entire team. That player is none other than Kevin Garnett.
We're going to use a couple stats here. One is Points Created Per Game, which is simply points scored + 2 times the amount of assists made, which gives an estimate of how many points per game the player truly causes, and the other statistic is going to be Defensive Plays Per Game, which is simply the addition of steals and blocks.
KG's 2007 PCPG: 25.6
TD's 2007 PCPG: 24.9
KG's Career PCPG: 29.2
TD's Career PCPG: 27.8
Kevin Garnett produces more on the offensive end of the court.
KG's 2007 DPPG: 2.7
TD's 2007 DPPG: 2.7
KG's Career DPPG: 3.1
TD's Career DPPG: 3.2
So your claims of Duncan being the better defender are null.
Duncan may rebound a little better than Garnett does, but he turns the ball over, so it's a wash there. As far as field goal percentages go, when KG's got talent around him (like he would here) he shoots better (as evidenced by his 55% FG this year, TD's about 51%). KG shoots more than 10% better from the line as well.
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 08/12, 11:31 PM
KG is a great player. I saw it first-hand for many years. But as much as it pains me to admit it, he isn't quite as good as Duncan.
If his career DPPG is higher, it would hint that he is a little better. Even if it's just by a hair.
But I don't care about scoring. Look at this team. LeBron, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul. They all scored more than 20 a game. Duncan scores more than Garnett, but scoring isn't the issue here; defense is what is needed to complete the team. So, let's compare Duncan and Garnett:
Duncan- 11.3 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 3.0 offensive RPG
Garnett- 9.2 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 1.9 offensive RPG
See that? Ducnan is a better rebounder on BOTH defense, AND offense. He averages more blocks a game, which is a fairly overlooked stat. It shows that Duncan is a very good face up defender, which is very important. Of course, you also need to play to perform, and Duncan plays more a game than Garnett, and he played 78 games to Garnett's 71.
Duncan also is more accomplished than Garnett. He is a two-time MVP while Garnett has won just one. Also, Duncan is a FOUR TIME NBA Champion. Garnett just one. Winning does count for something. Garnett and Duncan are both great, I want Duncan.
thehemogoblin said 08/13, 12:18 AM
Blocks are overlooked for a reason. Steals are GUARANTEED possessions for your team. Blocks can go back to your opponents. Face up defense will get you steals more than it will get you blocks, most all blocks come from weak side help. Garnett makes up for his lacking blocks (which Dwight Howard covers) with exceptional steals.
Hey, 0x, you said <b>"defense is what is needed to complete the team"</b>. Who is the reigning Defensive Player of the Year? Oh, that's right. KEVIN GARNETT. How many of these awards does Tim Duncan have? None. You want defense? You may as well just vote for me, man.
Rebounding on this team isn't quite as important as rebounding on most teams because of LeBron's ability to pull down boards at an incredible rate for a small forward.
KG didn't win because he had no supporting cast. You, of all people, should know this. Duncan's spent his entire career with the likes of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili and David Robinson. Apart from one showing, KG spent most of his career with Stephon Marbury and, well, when Starbury's the best player you've ever played with, there's a reason the guy had issues winning.
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 08/13, 09:39 AM
Yes, Garnett is better at steals. But honestly, are steals THAT important in the post? Garnett also GAMBLES for steals a lot, and he doesn't get them. What does this lead to? Easy points. Duncan isn't great at steals, but he's not bad, either (.72 a game). Look at the stats:
Duncan- 11.3 RPG, 1.9 BPG, .72 SPG
Garnett- 9.2 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 1.4 SPG
If you don't think that matters, look at their career stats:
Duncan- 11.8 RPG, 2.4 BPG, .79 SPG
Garnett- 11.2 RPG, 1.6 BPG, 1.38 SPG
So Duncan is BETTER on the glass, and at altering shots, which is often overlooked. But Garnett gets more steals, so he must be the better player, right? Shane Battier averaged LESS than ONE steal a game last year. The same Shane Battier who was SECOND in Defensive Player of the Year voting. Steals DON'T mean everything because everyone who gets steals ALSO gambles a lot, and GIVES UP points.
Yes, LeBron is a great rebounder, but he plays SF. The PF is going to be CLOSER to the hoop MORE OFTEN that the SF is. It's just simple. As good as LeBron is, he's not going to be under the basket all game.
I want the guy who PLAYS more, REBOUNDS more, BLOCKS more, and would be a better player ON THIS team: Duncan.
thehemogoblin said 08/13, 03:14 PM
You said you wanted defense. I offered you the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
Steals are more important than blocks anyways, because steals generate possessions guaranteed. I've seen many times where a player blocks a shot and then the other team gets the ball and the entire defense is out of position.
Last year, on teams with comparable supporting casts, Kevin Garnett's team allowed less points per game. Kevin Garnett's team forced more turnovers a game. Kevin Garnett's team had more blocks. Kevin Garnett's team had more steals. Kevin Garnett's team even had a slight edge in rebounding.
For every James Posey, there's a Bruce Bowen, for every Ray Allen, there's a Manu Ginobili, for every Kendrick Perkins, there's a Kurt Thomas. These teams are remarkably equal (at least defensively), so you can easily say that Kevin Garnett was the only major difference between these two teams on the defensive end, and if you look at every major stat, KG may not personally win it, but his presence and play enables his TEAM to be more successful.
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