- 01/05/2009, 06:53PM ET
jbfpack said 01/05, 06:53 PM
This topic brings up a lot of names that made my decision of the top three outfielders of all-time very difficult because of the number of deserving players that come to mind from this topic.
Anyways, here we go in no particular order...
-- Babe Ruth -- Was one of the best to play the game and one of the best leaders to play the game. Ruth made the homerun a major part of the game back then and look what a homerun means in a baseball game today. Ruth is still the career leader in slugging and OPS. That is an impressive feat looking at the stats of today's players.
-- Willie Mays -- Was the best all-around centerfielder in history and one of the greatest defenders that game has ever seen. Mays is the only player in history with over 300 Home Runs, 300 Steals, and 12 gold gloves. Mays played in a record 24 all-star games.
-- Ty Cobb -- He was known by many as the games most fierce competitor, which is probably how he landed himself with 90 baseball records when he retired. Cobb's records and accomplishments include 12 batting titles, highest career lifetime average with .367, and held the record for most hits up until 1985.
Good Luck, lakers.
Lakers#1: Roll Tide said 01/05, 08:53 PM
Well, I won't mess with the first two on your list, instead I will focus on the other one. I thought for a while on this and came to the one player that stood out:
Replace Ty Cobb with Ted Williams.
Let's jump right in and compare the stats
Williams .512- MLB Record
You talk about all the records held by Cobb after he retired, but the bar was set pretty low. All of those records except for three have been broken.
Ted Williams was a great hitter and great at getting on base. He led the league in on base % 12 times to Cobb's 7.
Ted Williams won the MVP award twice while Cobb won it just once. Then Williams had 6 other times where he finished in the top 3 while Cobb had 0.
Ted Williams was also selected to 17 All Star teams.
Ted Williams also added 5 Major League player of the year awards to his resume.
This is a pretty close debate, but I think Ted Williams was more of a complete player, so I have him in my top 3 over Cobb.
jbfpack said 01/06, 06:43 PM
Let me start out by saying that your OBP stat is a little skewed in that Ted Williams actually had a .482 (which is still the MLB record) OBP not a .512 OBP. Ty Cobb's .433 OBP is still the 9th highest total in MLB history.
I would also like to point out that during Ty Cobb's playing days, the All-Star game had not existed. Ty Cobb played from 1905 till 1928 (24 years). The All-Star game had not started until 1933 by which time Cobb had retired from baseball. Ted Williams' first season was 6 years into the all-star era, 1939 and played until 1960 (19 years).
This was also the case with the Player of the Year award that you mentioned in your argument. The Sporting News began presenting an annual Player of the Year award beginning in 1936 and again, Cobb retired in 1928 while Williams retired in 1960.
You cannot take the honors of All-Star team selections and Player of the Year award into account because of the time period differential of Cobb and Williams' playing days.
Now to some stats you left out;
Williams may have had more power, but Cobb had more speed.
Lakers#1: Roll Tide said 01/06, 09:18 PM
You pointing out the fact that the player of the year and All star games weren't out when Cobb played holds nothing. I never said that Williams had 17 to Cobb's 0. I said that Williams made 17 All Star games.
"Williams may have had more power, but Cobb had more speed."
With that logic, I guess Ricky Henderson is better than both huh?
Your little hits and RBI stats don't hold much. Consider two things:
Cobb played in 3,035 games to Williams' 2292.
And Williams missed three years of his prime to serve the country in the military.
Another thing you have to take in account with the hits and RBI's is amount of At-bats.
You give Ted Williams 4,000 more abouts he gets over 3000 hits and smashes Cobb's RBI total. So you can throw those stats out the door.
Ted Williams also has 2 triple crown awards to his name, while Cobb grabbed one.
Here is a telling stat. 162 game averages.
Williams .344 BA 37 HR 130 RBI 127 runs 545 AB
Cobb .366 BA 6 HR 103 RBI 120 runs 610
Williams did all that with 65 less at bats a year. Now what for your RBI stat? Who was better at drving runs in? Williams averaged driving in 27 more a year.
jbfpack said 01/07, 05:44 PM
Nice job lakers.
You had great arguments that I can't beat and the vote count clearly shows that.
I have no come back for that second argument of yours.
Good luck in round two of this tourney against the winner of the
#4.) RobertMenn Vs. #13.) JDawg1447 matchup.
Just for the record, here is my Top 5 MLB Outfielders of All-time;
> Babe Ruth
> Willie Mays
> Ty Cobb
> Hank Aaron
> Ted Williams
<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/ty%20cobb"><img src="http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/chipmanley/Cobb.jpg" alt="Ty Cobb Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>
Lakers#1: Roll Tide said 01/07, 11:42 PM
You did nicely, sorry about all the early voters.
Ty Cobb was a great player, and it is really hard to compare players from different era's. But Teddy Ballgame was just a all around better player in my opinion.
Sure Cobb had the better .BA, but that is about it. Williams was a better power hitter, and drove in more runs.
If Williams had more at bats, he would have shattered many of the stats that Cobb put up better than him.
Thanks for the fun debate jbf, this was a really fun topic to do.
If I were to rank top 5 outfielders of all time mine would be:
Both of this players deserve consideration, but Williams was better all around.
Once again, fun debate. Hopefully we can do it again sometime.
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