- 02/05/2009, 03:48PM ET
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 02/05, 03:48 PM
What can my guy do?
More rebounds than Danny Granger
More assists than Melo or Durant
Shoots better from 3 than Peja Stojakovic
LESS turnovers than LEBRON (and Granger, Pierce, Melo)
More BPG than Butler , Hedo or Pierce
And he gets 16+ points as a THIRD option
But a player is often measured by success, how successful has he been?
Helped lead team to playoffs 3 straight years, including 1 and 3 seeds
After trade, led a below .500 team to the playoffs, and nearly took out the 1 seed
In the playoffs, averages 17-6-3 , showing he is a big-game player
To be an elite player, you need to be able to succeed on BOTH ends of the court. A dedication to defense has made LeBron elite. Defense wins championships. And that's what sets my guy apart. What has he done?
Defensive Player of the Year
2x 1st team All-NBA defensive
2x 2nd team All-NBA defensive
Career average of 2.1 steals a game
Can shut down the likes of Kobe , D-Wade, or AI
If you look at ability, you have to recognize what my guy can do. Like him or hate him, watch him or yell at him, you gotta respect him. He can get 30, AND shut you down. Who is it?
Nickb23 - Holland has arrived! said 02/05, 05:51 PM
The future is obviously Durant and Granger's but they are on bad teams and that will help a good players stats being the main option for a loser.
I am going with Paul Pierce,a guy who proved he could drop 40 on any given night. A guy not far removed from a 26.8 PPG season. THEN when his team realized it was a TEAM sport and that he deserved some help. He took one for the team and let his numbers suffer.
He still showed the world what he had, when and only when his team needed it. Game 7, he went point for point with LeBron and came out on top. Then he went out and got 22 a night plus 6+ assists in route to a Finals MVP.
Artest went to the playoffs as a 1 seed, can I see his Finals MVP trophy for that?
This year both men are part of a team with a threesome. Yet Paul tops Ron in every category except steals and turnovers, even though Ron shoots more times per game.
In fact how big was the addition of Ron? Last year they had a .671 win %, this year a .600 win %.
Has he helped ANY?
These 2 things have led to Ron playing less than 60 games 3 of the last 4 years.
Paul Pierce is still a great scorer, but he has reformed for the TEAM.
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 02/05, 06:34 PM
Artest and Pierce are alike, as much as people hate to admit it. Both used to be scorers (20+ last year for Artest) who cut down on their scoring to help the team. Paul Pierce may have accolades, such as a ring and a Finals MVP, but there is a difference. What's the difference?
Artest had the likes of Kevin Martin and Jermaine O' Neal. Pierce played on one of the BEST NBA teams in a while. Seasoned veterans, a good coach, pass-first point guard, good nucleus. And uh, RAY ALLEN AND KG. If Artest had KG and Allen instead of O'Neal and Tinsley, think things could have turned out differently?
People forget Artest is just 29. People hate him, but looking past your perception, you realized that Artest is very good.
Pierce is better on offense, but Artest is no slouch. Since 03, his LOW PPG is this year. He shoots 42%. 16-5-3 are very good. But what's the difference?
Pierce isn't bad. But Artest was the DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR. Think about that. He's a 4x All-Defensive selection. Pierce? Not even close.
A great scorer, a good passer, a inconsistent defender, MORE turnovers.
A good scorer, a good passer, GREAT defender, less TO's.
Who do you want?
Nickb23 - Holland has arrived! said 02/05, 06:57 PM
They are not that similar. Sorry.
You are right, Artest is a better defender.
On the offensive end Pierce blows Artest out of the water.
Scoring- Last season in 57 games Artest had a career high 20.5 PPG (sorry 7 games seasons don't count). Pierce scored more than that 7 straight seasons. He has 5 seasons with over 25. He is a premier scorer in this league.
Passing- Artest single season high is below 4 assists. Pierce topped that 6 straight seasons while still scoring at an alarming rate.
Rebounding- Artests best is 6.5, Paul still topped that 4 times.
Shooting- Pierce shoots better from three, the field and the line.
I think you get the point. We are not comparing apples to apples on offense.
Pierce turns the ball over more because he is his teams go to guy and the guy other teams fear.
The Celtics needed KG and Allen but Pierce offers his team the one thing Artest can NOT. When all else fails they know Paul's scoring can show up when needed.
So even if the D evens it out. (It doesn't) You got this fact.
Pierce has played at least 79 games 7 of the last 8 years.
Artest has NEVER.
Paul plays through ANYTHING and shows up EVERY night.
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 02/05, 08:37 PM
4 points. That's the seperation.
Pierce is Boston's leading scorer, who plays with two UNSELFISH scorers. Pierce has averaged over FOUR SHOTS MORE A GAME, helping his scoring. He has always been the go-to guy, who doesn't have to pass look to involve guys, or use losts of energy on the other end.
Artest plays with not 1, but TWO SCORERS: Yao and T-Mac. Again, switch the stars, watch Artet's stats climb.
Pierce may have a little more assists, but he also has WAY MORE TURNOVERS. In one more year (rookie: 99-00 Artest, 98-99 PP) Pierce has OVER 1000 MORE TURNOVERS. Over 1000 more. If Pierce turns the ball over because he's the go-to-guy, why does he play with two good ball-handling guards? He's careless with the ball.
Artest averages more offensive rebounds, keeping possessions alive.
2 steals or more a game:
Artest- 9 TIMES
Artest- 4x All-NBA Defensive
Last year, Pierce got 2 votes. Nice.
Artest has gone for 20 or more 8 times this year. He DOESN'T HAVE TO SCORE, BUT CAN. If he wants to, Artest is a good scorer.
If Pierce scores 41 and gives up 45 & Artest scores 30 and gives up 15, who was the more COMPLETE PLAYER?
Nickb23 - Holland has arrived! said 02/06, 05:04 PM
ARE YOU HIGH?
"Pierce has averaged over FOUR SHOTS MORE A GAME, helping his scoring"
Check your math, Artest has missed 13 games (shocker). He has actually averaged a half shot more than Pierce per game with 4 less points. Worse yet he is shooting 38 % to Pierce 44%. BIG difference.
"Artest plays with not 1, but TWO SCORERS"
That's funny all 4 guys have career averages over 19, with Yao being the lowest. In fact both duo's have career averages of EXACTLY 41.2. Switching things would make Boston worse, because like I said Pierce can put a team on his back offensively.
"OVER 1000 MORE TURNOVERS"
That stat is skewed since he has played in 212 more games than Artest.
"If Pierce scores 41 and gives up 45 & Artest scores 30 and gives up 15"
That would be nice in your little dream world. Too bad Artest hasn't gone for 30 even ONE time all year.
Your LeBron example for Pierce is fine though. Artest against LeBron this year had 14 to Bron's 27. I'll take a -4 point swing to a -13. YOU?
How bout Paul's D on Kobe last night, 10 for 29 shooting is pretty solid D. Seeing as Ron let him go 10 for 17 earlier this year.
Only one team would swap players, Houston.
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