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- November 06, 2009 10:10 PM ET
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Giants got worst of the Eli, Rivers and Big Ben trio.
rer262 said 11/06, 10:10 PM
Eli Manning is a very good quarterback, don't get me wrong, but they got the raw end of the 2004 draft. I know he has a ring, but Phillip Rivers deserved the MVP last year and is San Diego's entire offense right now and Big Ben has two rings and is on an MVP-like campaign this season statistically.
Eli has choked under pressure as much as he has thrived, and while he is an adept leader, he hasn't put up dominant seasons statistically the way the other two have. Moreover, the Giants lost a pick that would have been Shawne Merriman, who is one of the best at his position in the league and for a few years was the most feared defensive player in the game.
SHANK: GO CATS!! 6-3 said 11/06, 10:39 PM
Ben>Eli>Rivers
Stats are not the only thing that QB can be measured by. That one ring he has was one of the biggest upsets in SB history. He was definitely clutch in that game.
As for this year he has still been solid. Obviously he hasn't looked great the last three but lets look at what he has done this year. He lost his best playmaker to jail and instead of crying about it or begging management to get a free agent WR he turns "the other" Steve Smith into a household name.
"Moreover, the Giants lost a pick that would have been Shawne Merriman,"
Would have been a nice pick up but then they wouldn't have Pierce who has been a pro bowler for them and they have had a top-5 defense since 04' so I don't think they are missing Merriman right now.
Rivers might put up some gaudy numbers but the man doesn't win football games and at the end of the day thats what you need your QB to do and he doesn't do it.
Eli was the right choice and he has the ring to prove it.
rer262 said 11/06, 11:55 PM
You ceded Big Ben so now it's Rivers and Merriman vs. Eli.
Trent Dilfer has a ring. Marino does not. Would you put Dilfer in Canton?
Look. Eli was great on that last drive in 2007. Heck, David Tyree made one of the best catches ever. Now he can't get onto the field. One game does not make a career.
Moreover, with Rivers, maybe it isn't as much of an upset. Eli threw 3 games away in December with horrible INT's. The Giants won that game because of their pass rush and 3 deep running game. Btw, Merriman had 12.5 sacks that year. You put him opposite Pierce, Brady and co. might not score a point.
Rivers doesn't win? He is 37-18 as a starter. Manning is 38-32. After a 4-8 start last season thanks to a terrible D and no running game, Rivers finished the yr with 11 TD's and only 1 INT to steal the division and then marched his team down the field against the other Manning in overtime in the playoffs.
Wanna talk making receivers? Steve Smith is very good. Household name? Not quite. Rivers never had a Plaxico. He took a project, much like Steve Smith, and made him an actual household name. I'm talking Vincent Jackson, the man Rivers made a top 5 receiver.
SHANK: GO CATS!! 6-3 said 11/07, 02:07 PM
First off Manning is 47-32.
You say that Manning won due to his defense and only has one good drive on his resume. How bout we thrown in the fact that he has done this without a playmaking TE (Gates), or 2 big play RBs (LT and Sproles). Rivers is able to be more efficient at times b/c he has to throw the ball down the field less often. Its makes your numbers look really good when you throw a 4 yard swing pass and watch Sproles run up the sideline for 80 yards. (See SD/BAL game this year).
So no Manning doesn't have the same stats that Rivers has but the guy wins games and he wins them when they count. Comparing him to Dilfer is just and Rivers with Marino is a little out there. Dilfer was never counted on to WIN football games, Lewis ran the ball and the other Lewis stopped the other team from running. By the time Dilfer had to throw the ball they were already up 2 scores. Manning has always had to throw and win games, especially the last 2 years since Strahan has left.
You also can't discount the fact that Rivers gets to play in sunny California and gets OAK and KC 2x a year, while Eli plays in the harsh conditions of the Northeast on a regular basis.
MTC
rer262 said 11/07, 02:31 PM
San Diego has a better running game than the Giants?
LT is one of the best RB's ever career wise, but the past 2 years? You can't even compare them.
Let's look at San Diego's #1 RB vs. the Giants #1 RB
LT in 2008: 1,110 yards, 3.8 YPC, 11 TD's.
Brandon Jacobs in 2008: 1089 yards, 5.0 YPC, 15 TD's.
LT in 2009: 267 yards, 3.4 YPC, 3 TD's.
Jacobs in 2009: 550 yards, 3.9 YPC, 2 TD's.
Let's look at the #2 RB's:
Sproles in 2008: 330 yards, 5.4 YPC, 1 TD.
Derrick Ward in 2008: 1025 yards, 5.6 YPC, 2 TD's.
Sproles in 2009: 169 yards, 3.5 YPC, 1 TD.
Ahmad Bradshaw in 2009: 476 rush yards, 5.3 YPC, 4 TD's.
Hmmm? Rivers sure does have the better RB's to lean on, doesn't he?
Rivers has Gates, true. Eli had Jeremy Shockey, not Gates but a serviceable tight end. Eli has had Plaxico, Toomer, Smith, Manningham, Nicks. Rivers has had Vincent Jackson and who? Chris Chambers? Please.
What playoff games has Rivers thrown away? I seem to recall Eli choking big time in Philly last year...
Also, don't forget that the Giants have the best OL in the NFL. B/w that and the RB's, if Eli was as good as Rivers, he'd have a 30 TD year like PR does.
SHANK: GO CATS!! 6-3 said 11/07, 04:54 PM
You missed the whole point of my RB argument. LDT and Sproles ,make RIVERS more efficient while Jacobs/Bradshaw/Ward make the GIANTS more efficient. My point was that Rivers has viable backfield options when throwing the ball and Eli does not.
LT 2008- 52 catches for 426 yards and a TD. 8.2 ypc
Jacobs whole career- 49 catches for 414 yards and 2 TDs. 6.1ypc
Sproles 2008- 29catches for 342 yds and 5 TDs 11.8 ypc
Ward 2008- 41 catches for 384 yds and 0 TDS 9.4ypc
Sproles 2009- 20 catches for 267 yards and 2TDs 13.4 ypc
Bradshaw 2009- 7 catches for 69 yards and 0 TDs 9.9ypc
Yes the Giants have a great run game but that actually takes away oppurtunities for Eli and also makes him predictable when playing teams like the Eagles, Cowboys, and Skins 2x a year. Give Eli those checkdown options in the backfield and his numbers would go way up.
playoffs since 06
Rivers- 3-3 with 7TDs and 7INTs
Manning- 4-2 with 8TDS and 4INTs AND A RING!
So yes I can call Rivers a choke job in the playoffs. Don't know why you used the Indy game as proof he isn't when he had 200 yards a pick and no TDs that game.
Switch teams and Eli has the #s and the Ws. Rivers would not.
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Comments (29) Add A Comment
I would love to take this throwdown, but unfortunately, I totally agree with your arguement!
Godzilla!!!
Lake Wylie, SC
Total Comments (733)
You be hungry?
[youtube]http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/mcdonalds.jpg[/youtube]
Terror Awaits
In The Boondocks, IA
Total Comments (1438)
You hungry take 2:
Terror Awaits
In The Boondocks, IA
Total Comments (1438)
why??
SHANK: GO CATS!! 6-3
Total Comments (1164)
im throwing up right now, that picture is so wrong.
wjmcd703: stuck in a…
Clifton Heights , PA
Total Comments (313)
Same here
wjmcd703: stuck in a…
Clifton Heights , PA
Total Comments (313)
pure domination from the left side...very very good arguments
TrailBlazerWA
Aberdeen , WA
Total Comments (27)
La paz sea con vosotros.
Guadalupe
Total Comments (29)
Rivers is better than Eli...pure and simple - Eli's team was better in 07, but that doesn't make HIM better....left's arguments are right on
aaron1185
Lagrange , OH
Total Comments (220)
Rings are rings. Nothing left has said to deny that. You are trying to compare Rivers to Marino, and that's just not the case. And while Tyree made a great catch, it was Eli who escaped from that pass rush. It takes two to make that play, its why that is one of the best super bowl plays in history.
I vote right for now, let's see how left does.
BurghHockey12:…
Pittsburgh , PA
Total Comments (1246)
I"m getting really tired of seeing these "SB win = Better QB" arguments.
As an Eagles fan, I'm damn glad the Giants traded Philip Rivers for Eli Manning. I have no doubt that the G-Men would be significantly more dominant with Rivers.
The (Un)Official
Total Comments (2007)
Heck, David Tyree made one of the best catches ever. Now he can't get onto the field. One game does not make a career.
Eli Manning panicked and lobbed that ball up into quadruple coverage: There were four defenders around... and only one Giant (Tyree).
The (Un)Official
Total Comments (2007)
Ditto.
hbomb118
Staatsburg , NY
Total Comments (733)
What he said
hbomb118
Staatsburg , NY
Total Comments (733)
If Samuel holds on to that pick, we never get to the hail Mary.
hbomb118
Staatsburg , NY
Total Comments (733)
Another good td. good, factual arguments on both sides. I'm gonna think hard about my vote; with so many frivolous, outrageous td's being initiated lately, you owe it to left and right to think carefully about your vote.
Spartan68
Tulsa, OK
Total Comments (86)
Oh, regarding comments two and three, WTF?
Spartan68
Tulsa, OK
Total Comments (86)
I'd take both Ben and Rivers before Eli without giving it a second thought.
DeuceDeuce
Zurich, CH
Total Comments (224)
I wasn't comparing Rivers to Dilfer. I was just trying to take credibility away from the ring argument.
rer262
Total Comments (7)
Eli should NEVER be named top qb, EVER.
I wonder if the Giants are picked to win the SB now...what flukes! Eli is a fluke...one hit wonder if you will.
LOVERnottaFIGHTER
Total Comments (6515)
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