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- November 07, 2009 06:25 PM ET
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All-Time Top 5 NBA PG's
Orpheus... said 11/07, 06:25 PM
1. Magic Johnson
In my opinon, part of the discussion for the 2nd greatest player of all time. His career averages of 19.5 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 11.2 APG are rediculous, and the 3 NBA MVP's and 5 Titles don't hurt either.
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2. Oscar Robertson
Possibly the only player who can rival Magic statistically at PG, but the 1 MVP and 1 title aren't enough to pass Magic. The reason they came up with the term "triple double".
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3. John Stockton
Having the all time steals and assist leader this low is a testament to how deep this position is. The zero titles kills in some ways, but his career .515 FG% helps me sleep at night.
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4. Isiah Thomas
19.2 PPG, 9.3 APG, .452 FG%, 2 Titles, 12 All-Star Games, those are some tough numbers to argue against for his placing here.
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5. Bob Cousy
Led the NBA in assists 8 times, 6 NBA championships, 1 MVP, 13 All-Star Games, at the time heads above all the other PG's in the NBA.
Will argue more in-depth once I see who I'm up against.
hawkfan1712 said 11/07, 06:45 PM
Allright, Cousy is out, and Gary Payton is in, at #5. The Glove was THE BEST defensive point gaurd of all time. He scored over 20,000 points and won a title in 2006. Cousy only won because he was on a team with a bunch of hall fo fame players, like Bill Russel. Payton is the best PG in Seattle's history.
Orpheus... said 11/07, 07:09 PM
I was expecting Jason Kidd, and was not thinking anyone would put Payton up there. Let's break this down.
Career Averages
Cousy: 18.4 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 7.5 APG
Payton: 16.3 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 6.7 APG
So you can see, Cousy has better numbers per game in all 3 major categories. Cousy is also only 1 of 4 PG's to ever win a NBA MVP (Oscar, Magic, and Steve Nash are the other 3). While you say he was surrounded by Hall of Famers, you forget that he is a Hall of Famer himself! I don't fault him for having talent around him, he still won 6 titles, including one where he was the main guy (1957)
If you're a believer in PER (which I am, if given enough of a sample size), then all you need to see is this:
Cousy career PER: 19.7
Payton career PER: 18.9
So Payton was good, but Cousy was better.
hawkfan1712 said 11/08, 03:01 PM
Whatever, "The Glove" was what point gaurds are all about. He was a clutch scorer, played amazing defense, and was a team leader. Him and Kemp made the SuperSonics a dominant force in the NBA for over a decade.
Orpheus... said 11/08, 07:20 PM
You haven't said anything of value yet, just your opinion and nothing to back it up.
Bob Cousy retired the ALL-TIME leader in assists, he was the best point guard in NBA history when he left the game. Gary Payton cannot make anywhere near that claim.
Bob Cousy also held the single season record for assists until some guy named Oscar Robertson broke it.
Gary Payton only led the league in assists once, Bob Cousy did it 8 YEARS IN A ROW.
Bob Cousy had better numbers across the board, and has an MVP and 6 Titles. Payton won a title in 2006 as 4th banana (at best!) on the Heat.
Before Oscar Robertson, Bob Cousy was the gold standard for point guards. No way Payton is above him.
Good TD Hawkfan.
hawkfan1712 said 11/09, 08:10 PM
Forfeited Turn
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Comments (20) Add A Comment
Good luck SHANK!
Orpheus...
Total Comments (229)
thanks, had to drop it though. I agree with your top 5 as a whole. only change I could possibly make was flip flopping Thomas with Stockton. Not enough to have a good TD. good luck though,.
SHANK: GO CATS!! 6-3
Total Comments (1158)
Fair enough, thanks for the message. Take care.
Orpheus...
Total Comments (229)
Good luck hawkfan!
Orpheus...
Total Comments (229)
Leaning left, but I'll wait for more arguments. Payton was great and is probably top 10, but he was no Cousy.
TenRingsSTL
Total Comments (4217)
"Cousy only won because he was on a team with a bunch of hall fo fame players, like Bill Russel."
Insert Payton for Cousy and Wade, Shaq, and Zo for Russell and then call right an idiot.
<-------------------------
SHANK: GO CATS!! 6-3
Total Comments (1158)
Have not seen a PG play D like the glove.
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BS patrol is Joint…
Lake Oswego , OR
Total Comments (781)
I think left has a point in mentioning that Jason Kidd should have been the next logical argument. He was a better point guard than Payton and he also took his team to 2 Championship games.
J-Business
Total Comments (86)
I'd downgrade Stockton out if the top 5 as he was also the all time league leader in Phantom Assists and played D about as good as Nash A TO on Kidd/Payton would be interesting
swampdragonzz
Total Comments (719)
Stockton should be higher not lower. He didn't play D as well as Payton, but he was BY FAR a superior passer.
Vulcan
Total Comments (92)
Where Pistol Pete, I mean if you're going to count Oscar you have to count Pete
tophleiken
Eugene , OR
Total Comments (153)
Pistol is not even in the top 15 of all time NBA PGs
SHANK: GO CATS!! 6-3
Total Comments (1158)
they both played at different times. Cousy was the greates point guard of his era when he retired but there wasnt any oscar robertson or magic johnson at the time. Payton played in an era after them. Of course Payton wouldnt retire best PG ever with those two in front of him. Neither would COusy if he played when Payton did. I think right could have won but not enough argument value. I agree right but gotta vote left. Too much of a homer argument. Im from seattle btw;) The glove was awesome. But as we all know, Seattle guys get no love
TrailBlazerWA
Aberdeen , WA
Total Comments (27)
The Glove was good once, but I remember him looking OLD against Detroit when he was with the Lakers...
CanofOil...Asst.…
Winston Salem, NC
Total Comments (1350)
I think that's because he was old
Bannerman
Chicago , IL
Total Comments (74)
No Walt Frazier?
The (Un)Official
Total Comments (1924)
you are an idiot.
So. Cal. nuances
Total Comments (521)
--------> because Payton played better d than cousy
The Swamp
Miami, FL
Total Comments (169)
Right had pathetic arguments, but left pointed out that offensively Cousy was better than Payton, knew too well that he didn't match up defensively.
Recession
Total Comments (145)
Thomas should be higher, wouldn't have a problem with him being #2.
Johnny Cage
Total Comments (481)
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