FanNation - The Republic of Sport

haha, basketball jesus, i was just about to take this one when the page reloaded and told me you took it. its obvious codyshep, STEROIDS???

Baseball managers have learned over the years how to keep a pitcher on the mound the entire season. Statistics show that pitch count is important. The more a pitcher throws early in the season, the more likely it is that the arm won't last til October. Nobody made up tracking the number of pitches. There's a good reason for it.

The worst thing to ever happen to young pitchers is the radar gun.

The "worst" statement is probably an over statement, but I agree with Jim Pryor. It does keep pitchers on the mound and helps extend careers. Sure, Scot Shields did that in high school, but he wasn't going to have a 162 game schedule over 6 months, starting every five days. The high school grind is not comparable to the major league grind.

It is not the worst thing in baseball but I know what he meant and I agree with him. Back in the day, guys would pitch complete or close to complete games and pitch again the day after tomorrow. Nowadays guys get like a week off, depending on their rotation, before they pitch again. If a guy is hot, regardless of his pitch count, he should be left in the game. A guy should get pulled if his velocity starts to drop or he starts missing his target. Teams are quick to pull a guy because they would rather pull him than take a chance of him getting a pitch blasted out of the park.

Grady Little should never be blamed for the Pedro thing. It's the playoffs, it's Pedro. If Pedro wants the ball - you trust him as a team leader and let him try to get out of it. I still don't think he should be held responsible for that.

There are worse things in baseball...the DH, current playoff system, Current division alignments, expansion, talent....

and ticket prices. man, i get ripped off to see the giants lose. i'm not going 2 another game until bonds retires. i'm not contributing to his salary anymore

Basketball Jesus, you're wrong. And if you're a Red Sox fan claiming a name directly attributed to Bill Simmons, I figured you'd understand the main problem with Little's decision to keep Pedro in the game.

He hadn't thrown over 100 pitches all season. Yes, he's going to be a bit tired, but as you said, he was "well over 100 pitches" into the seventh, so if you're arguing in favor of the 100-pitch count milestone, you should be saying he shouldn't have been out there in the sixth, let alone the seventh.

Cody is saying, if a pitcher has trained himself to pitch that long, it isn't a problem. Pedro hadn't. It was unwise of Little to leave him in past the furthest point he's pitched in a game in at least over a year. He's not used to it.

However, if he had gone over 100 pitches on multiple occaisons that season, it's going to take a lot for me to go out to the mound and take a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Fame pitcher out simply because he reached 100 pitches.

For example, Johan Santana pitches into the seventh if he wants to throw into the seventh. Boof Fricken Bonser does not. Santana is in considerably better shape than Bonser, and he's proven several times he can handle going that far into a start. Bonser hasn't. Santana is prepared for it, Bonser isn't. That has nothing to do with the physical number of 100.

There's no direct statistic that links the 100-pitch mark as the start of the end of the quality of a pitcher. It's just a round number, nothing more.

Middle relief based on pitch count has certainly made baseball less fun. I loved the day when pitchers would close a game. As a Tiger fan I have been disappointed when lets say Verlander is pulled after a hit in the 7th because his pitch count is over 100, then the reliever comes in and is bombed! Holy ----! BlueJimmy

Middle relief based on pitch count has certainly made baseball less fun. I loved the day when pitchers would close a game. As a Tiger fan I have been disappointed when lets say Verlander is pulled after a hit in the 7th because his pitch count is over 100, then the reliever comes in and is bombed! Holy ----! BlueJimmy

Look at Maddux for example. THIS SEASON (I highlight that because I know he was better in the past), he looks great through his first 75 pitches, but after that, his ERA is a full 3 points higher.

You've got your guys like Dice-K and Harang who can go 130+ with no problem, but they are few and far between.

You also have to keep in mind that a player is a long term investment. Sure, many younger guys are in great shape and can throw back to back 130 pitch games or whatever, but what happens in 3 years when they need Tommy John surgery because they burned their arm out? Well now you basically just dumped a lot of money into a short-term arm with no real dividend.

Not having a salary cap...lowering the mound...5 man rotations, meaning less quality pitchers...

It just depends on the pitcher, if he's tired you gotta take him out. There's a reason you have the bullpen

The addition of the Designated Batter was the start of it all. Bob Gibson NEVER started a game thinking of making it just to the 6th or 7th inning. A pitcher was supposed to pitch the WHOLE game. They also were good enough athletes that many pitchers also were called on to be pinch hiiters and were successful at it. Now we have pitchers that are there for three outs and in some cases just one.

The Yankees have a pitcher that is paid $1 million a game yet has a 3-6 record.

Most professional sports have transformed from a "team" game to a "me" game. Poorly educated men playing a children's game for entirely too much money which has ruined their dedication to their "profession'. Imagine if your surgeon had a .300 average on his operations or your dentist had a 15-10 record for his work.

i can't believe this is a debate. while its not the worst thing, it is stupid. "as a red sox fan" i know that matsuzake rutinely threw over 100 pitches in japan last year and sometimes up to 155! and he hasn't missed a game all year. it was a creation of ownership after billy martin's oakland a's lost 1/2 the rotation forever because of them throwing their arms out. that is why the a's developed the set up man and modern da closer.

Bonds is the worst thing that happened to baseball.

i think we all agree that it is not the worst thing, but certainly not all that bad. the strategy in baseball now is to hope for 6-7 innings for your starter and then bring in the bullpen. it is a long season and you need your starters all the way through the year. so placing limits on your starters is not a bad thing and certainly not the worst thing. there will always be exceptions, like an efficient pitcher who gets batters out quickly and does not get deep into the count. then there's the pitchers you would love to see get to 100 pitches, which means he is keeping his team in the game.
anyways, vote goes to...BBJ

being a phils fan w/ one of the worst bullpens in baseball, my vote goes to cody. you get the feeling that managers dont even consider the individual pitcher, just the count. seems the only time manuel will leave a starter in for more than 7 is if the bullpen is overworked. no consideration is given to how the starter looks.