- 08/30/2010, 11:21PM ET
fvkasm2x said 08/30, 11:21 PM
Simple goal. Put out the best people you can on the ice! Careers don't really count, so we cannot argue "all time stats" of someone like Modano for Detroit... it would be Modano for this season only.
G: Henrik Lundqvist (NYR) - One of the most underrated goalies in the league. If NYR had any talent on their team, this guy would win a lot more games. Sadly, he has to settle for great GAA, Save % and no playoff success.
D: Zdeno Chara (BOS) - A premier D-man for pretty much his entire career, he shows no sign of slowing down. The big man can shut down any offense, as well as park his giant 6'9" frame in front of the net on the PP.
D: Tomas Kaberle (TOR) - Still a Leaf for the time being, we need offense from the blueline while Chara lays out the hits defensively.
RW: Patty Kane (CHI) - Proved himself to be in the upper echelon of talent last year. Can only get better.
C: Pavel Datsyuk (DET) - Great 2 way player. Will have no problem setting up his wingers.
LW: Mike Cammalleri (MON) - Sniper who can score in bunches. Lit the lamp in all of his stops, would excel with premier players.
I think my line has great all around depth. Yours?
YODA said 08/31, 11:03 AM
"Simple goal. Put out the best people you can on the ice!"
If you have to dress even ONE Leaf, finding the "best" people is not a "simple" goal.
Even some Leaf fans (eg. Argos, comment #7) seem to need an assist in removing their heads from their **** on when to make a point.
But while Argos can type faster than he can think, he does know hockey. For 6 full mths, Argos' has been on the Phaneuf Homer Train. And he is onto something.
G - The Real "King Henrik" (NYR) - Agreed.
D - Chara (BOS) - No doubt.
D - Phaneuf (TOR) - Lethal pairing of physicality on D with Chara. Diverse talent, 2-way game, and WILL destroy Avery at some point.
RW - Brian Gionta (MON) - Small, yet scrappy. Can crash the net "cleanly" (lol) and create noise in there. THRIVES (MTC later) in the right mix and here's THE mix for him up front...
C - Toews (CHI) - On FIRE right now. Doing it ALL. 2010 Triple Gold Cup: Olympic Gold, Stanley Cup, Playoff MVP.
LW: Zetterberg (DET) - Brings it every time. Another Conn Smyther who plays every style.
fvkasm2x said 08/31, 11:34 AM
So we have two similarities, 2 choices of yours I like and 2 I think are bad choices if you want a team of elite players. With your 2 changes, you have had to sacrifice better skill and overall depth.
Gionta, Phaneuf, Toews &Zetterberg
Cammy, Kaberle, Kane & Datsyuk
1. Gionta: He of 46 points last year? He who has averaged just 51 points over the last 4 seasons? Gionta is a great 2nd line player, but he is not someone you make a team with if you are looking for the ELITE players from each team.
2. Phaneuf: Used to be a phenom. Lowest point total until last year, was 47 (the season before last) and last year posted 32 points. He is on a downward spiral, leading to his exile from CGY. If the Flames were willing to trade their golden boy for pennies on the dollar, why would be considered elite still? He takes way too many bad penalties, causes problems in the dressing room and has already peaked in terms of skill.
3. Your argument: You spent 1/3 of your first argument making fun of Argos and the Leafs. While I can appreciate both accounts, this isn't the Proses tournament where comedy matters!
YODA said 09/01, 05:22 AM
I should have spent MORE than 1/3 on Argos. But I didn't mean it as comedy, unfortunately. The ineptitude of the Leafs has rubbed off on Argos...or maybe Argos is the one jinxing the Leafs.
Ranking D-men on pts? Odd, but okaay...
But even on O, does Kaberle really shine? Where are these gifts that Kaberle is supposed to bring? Ha. 6 goals a yr (past 3) is contribution? He is a good skater with a nice lead pass, but that ain't enough. Glaring weaknesses.
Kaberle is the playoffs? He'd be a laydown.
Phaneuf (No upside? He "peaked"? Missed that.)
Yet, he STILL outscores Kaberle. 8 G a yr avg (same timeframe). AND he plays D - including the PK. He also hits and plays agressive.
You'd put that C on Kaberle's shirt?
Pennies of the dollar? I don't understand but if you explain, I'll try to respond.
- 5 yr slice -
Gionta - (Gms: 378, Goals: 28.6 avg...GPG= 0.37)
Cammalleri - (Gms: 370, G: 28.8, GPG = 0.388)
Small scrappy guys with eerily similar styles and production.
Gionta's got his Cup ring, but Cam (with Halak on fire) proved himself last yr.
Toews is the hot C to draw that NJ Franchise Goal Record pace out of Gionta.
fvkasm2x said 09/01, 07:36 PM
Kaberle is the model of consistency on offense. He has played 4 full seasons in the last 5, and in those 4 seasons he tallied at LEAST 42 assists in every season, with 56 point averages. Phaneuf's play has declined the past 2 years.
Phaneuf was a beast when he first came into the league, but he also averaged 120 PIMS a season. That's attributed to a physical game AND taking dumb penalites. You don't need 2 shut down defensemen. You don't need 2 physical guys, you need balance. I also cite character. Dion is a distraction in the dressing room according to teammates. He also said "Normal people don't deserve H1N1 vaccines" when CGY players jumped line for shots. What a jerk. I am also taking in character and chemistry.
Your 5 year slice has 1 MONSTER season by Gionta 5 years ago, one he has never come close to replicating again. Take away that 89 pt season 5 years ago and he doesn't even come close to high totals. Cammy also has scored his pts playing with "elite" centers like Craig Conroy and actually being a center himself with the Kings, trying to set up linemate Dustin Brown (who tallied 46 points).
Gionta has done lesss, with more (better players).
YODA said 09/02, 04:18 AM
Kaberle IS the model of consistency...He is consistently on the trade block.
I don't see the character deficiencies in Phaneuf that you do.
I don't think a single dumb quote to the media says anything in itself.
Generally, I trust Brian Burke's opinion about Phaneuf more so that some rumored disgruntled teammates (I can't address anything any teammates might have said because you didn't give me names.)
To Burke, Phaneuf is the ONLY guy with the right character to be the new Captain.
I'm going to go back to something you said right at the very beginning of the debate: "Simple goal. Put out the best people you can on the ice!"
When I read that initial opener "Put out the BEST...", my first thought was: TOEWS.
While there is nothing I really want to say negative about guys like Datsyuk, Chara, Kane, Zetterberg, ONE guy THIS year (2010) is stood out as THE BEST (on these Original 6 teams) and that is Toews - Olympics, Cup, Playoff MVP. As hot as it gets.
I'd make him the young Captain on my team of Captains (Dion, Chara, Toews) and in between Zett and Gionta, all would thrive.
Thanks for the TD. GL and apologies to Argos for the harshness up top.
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