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- 09/06/2010, 01:10PM ET
Deron Williams leaving Utah
Joe Dew said 09/06, 01:10 PM
I am sick of hearing the rumors and connection of Deron Williams leaving Utah for the following reasons:
1-Deron is upset with the situation in Utah.
2-The Jazz still have no title since he re-signed.
3-Losing Korver, Boozer, and Brewer has taken his heart out of it.
4-When Deron played in the All-star game in Dallas, it was the happiest he's looked in two years.
5-Dallas has substantial cap room in 2012
6-He'll have a better supporting cast in Dallas
I will address all of these reasons and why they are absolutely false. I dont have all the room here but will start with Deron Being upset in Utah. He has stated that he has happy with the additions of Al Jefferson, Raja Bell, and Hayward and thinks Utah is moving in a good direction.
Title talk is stupid, only 2 teams have titles since Deron signed (his extension) being the Lakers and Celtics. The Lakers have also knocked the Jazz out of the West all 3 years. Deron has also said that he will make Big Al an All Star so he still has heart in it and even talking about Brewer was last year at the trade deadline, not this summer.
More to come!
fvkasm2x said 09/06, 01:45 PM
I will show you why those things (or at least most) are true.
1. He is upset that the team traded away one of his best friends, in Brewer. Google "Deron Williams + upset" and you get 16,000 results.
He is also upset that management lost Brewer, Boozer, Korver and Matthews, but did nothing notable in return. Their roster got much weaker. Williams wants to win and it is clear Utah won't challenge for the Championship any time soon.
2. The Jazz don't have a title. How can you prove that is false Joe Dew?
3. See #1. Maybe not his heart, but it is definitely hard to play with the same drive. He is human.
4. Happiest cannot be measured by the "look on one's face." This cannot be proven either way by either of us.
5. Dallas will have cap room. Even if they didn't, they would make the trades/cuts in order to have the space. Cuban wants to field a good, entertaining team. If he can get Williams, he will try for it.
6. He would have a better supporting cast. See #1. Utah traded away most of their depth. Dallas seemingly always has depth.
Joe Dew, I proved that at 5 of those 6 ARE true. How can you prove they all aren't?
Joe Dew said 09/06, 01:53 PM
If you saw the article in Dime Magazine these are the 6 points they brought up.
4- All Star Game in Dallas. I agree with happiness not being judge-able. He would have been happy to be playing the All-star game in Yellowknife, Canada. He had just been snubbed for 2-3 years. Being in Dallas was icing on the cake.
5- Guess who else has cap room in 2012? Utah. Not that it matters anymore but guess who can give him the most money? Utah Guess who might not have cap room in 2012 because your owner is Mark Cuban?
6- Depth-- The Jazz have Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, Raja Bell, and Gordon Hayward on the books for 2012-13. The Mavs have Dirk, Shawn Marion, Brendan Haywood, Roddy, and Dominque Jones. The average age of those first three will be about 33. Even if the ages were the same, is that a lineup that would be enough to pull Deron to Dallas?
And we still have no idea what teams/contracts will look like after the new CBA!
The biggest factor to me why this wouldn't happen would be that Dallas will be over whatever the cap is in 2012 with Cuban doling out huge contracts trying to build a winner.
fvkasm2x said 09/06, 03:38 PM
You said: "I will address all of these reasons and why they are absolutely false."
I am waiting to see how you can prove 5 of these wrong, since I already threw #4 away.
5. I can't really think of many marquee free agents who want to go to Utah. It has been a great franchise, has a great coach and everything about Utah seems to be super.
But it is in Utah. Nowadays players want 3 things:
1. Money
2. Win
3. Fame
If a player (Amare, Bosh, LBJ, etc...) wants to really make themselves into a household name, they go to the big markets. Salt Lake is nice for mormons, but not for young rich black people.
6. Raja bell isn't half the player he was with Steve Nash. Look at his career. Pre-Nash he was a nobody and nobody knew his name. With the Suns, he became a household name. Without Nash again, he has done nothing. Same with players like Q Richardson. Sorry, but Bell will not be the glue that holds the Jazz together.
Cuban is a proven "fan/owner" who cares about his team. He will get the players needed to make his team better. Utah management is not the same.
Also, there ARE other teams he could go to you know.
Joe Dew said 09/06, 04:05 PM
You knock on Raja Bell and forget that this guy was undrafted and played in the Finals his Rookie year on the Sixers alongside Allen Iverson. He gained some publicity because he was guarding Kobe Bryant. He then went to utah a few years later and gained attention as being a defensive stopper and three point threat, enter Steve Nash. You cant really talk about after the Suns because it was so quick in Charlotte and playing in a new system.
Last time Boozer was a free agent he signed in Utah. So I dont think thats really a problem anymore. Utah typically builds from within, drafts and so on. Millsap, Matthews, Miles, AK47, Williams... So i dont think the Jazz have problems acquiring talent.
How can you say Cuban is a proven owner where the Jazz are not. Really? WHat is your reasoning? Cuban has been to the finals once, the jazz have been twice. The Jazz play deep into the post season, the last couple seasons the Mavs have been just the same as the Jazz. Out the 1st or 2nd round. Even the year the Mavs lost to the Warriors the Jazz beat them in 5.
fvkasm2x said 09/07, 12:51 PM
Title talk may be stupid, but their point was accurate. There is no way to disprove that, so how you can say #2 is false, is beyond me.
Dallas will have cap room in 2012. Even if they didn't, they still have 1.5 years to clear space, so you can't prove that false either. It's already true.
I said "a proven owner that cares about his team." He is passionate. He is the most energetic, in your face GM/owner/management type in the business. There is no way he is going to dump players because of payroll or let the team slip into obscurity.
I'm not saying the Jazz are doing that, as they are still a good team... but it is obvious that they cannot win a championship. Dallas is only 1 great player away, plus a few role players. Williams can be that guy. Pairing him with Dirk and a few "2nd fiddle" types and they can make some serious noise. The Jazz aren't even that close.
In any event, I feel you failed to live up to your promise.
You didn't disprove #2 and #6.
The onus wasn't on me to prove they were true (since they are facts that cannot be disputed), the onus was on you to say they were bogus. They aren't.
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Comments (23) Add A Comment
so are you saying he should leave, or shouldn't?
Rudedog: Thankful
Total Comments (27533)
I think he's saying he "won't" leave.
OM: 2010 Champs
San Jose, CA
Total Comments (5594)
I think he will. Jefferson was a nice pickup, but other than that... the roster got weaker. Not as bad as the Paul/Hornets situation, but watching a team that couldn't win the big prize get worse is hard on a player.
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2121)
shouldnt leave and wont leave
Joe Dew
Idaho Falls , ID
Total Comments (197)
I think everyone is forgetting that Boozer missed 50% of his games in Utah during his 5 year tenure. He missed 201 Games!!! If Al Jefferson can step in (and he will, deron says he will make him an all star) and gives 18 and 8 the Jazz wont lose production. They will actually be deeper because Jefferson plays D in the Paint, better than Booz. Okur is a backup now and Millsap gets to show the league what he can do. Like he did when Boozer was out and he averaged 20-10 numbers. Raja Bell was a great addition that already knows the system as well. The Lakers wanted him for crying out loud.
Joe Dew
Idaho Falls , ID
Total Comments (197)
If he wants to win a title he needs to pair up with more than the likes of Bell and Jefferson. Sorry but the NBA is [and always has really] been all about teaming up with stars. Utah will be a playoff team but I don't ever see them taking the next step. He should go to the Lakers. Fischer is probably going to be done after this year. Who cares about cap room, the NBA has a soft cap and there are a million ways to get around any boundary or limit on what you can pay a player.
BuckyBadger.
Total Comments (2791)
I think its rather clear. Deron Williams will probably never win a championship if he stays with the Utah Jazz.
J-Business
Total Comments (892)
If you think about Lebron did and how he left cleveland to get a championship in Miami with 2 other bonafide stars it makes you wonder if LBJ stayed in Cleveland and won it would have been sweeter than if he accomplishes it with 2 other stars in a new city.
I think Deron would rather accomplish it with his team, the one he is the star or rather than HAVING to leave and join others.
I mean Karl Malone joined the Lakers to try and get that ring and still didnt get it so nothing is guaranteed and I know that Malone would have rather won a ring in Utah in 97 or 98 than he would have in 04 with the Lakers. I mean to have one is better than nothing but their is more to the pursuit of the championship than just the hardware.
Raja Bell didnt want to get a ring being on the pine in LA but he would rather have significant minutes and try to be apart of something in Utah. It makes you really wonder about guys like Shaq in Boston and Bosh in Miami. It kind of seems like they are ok with not being the MAN, just riding the coatails of others.
Joe Dew
Idaho Falls , ID
Total Comments (197)
Joe Dew, you didn't explain # 1, 2 and 3 ??? You said you were going to prove all of them wrong?
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2121)
I feel like I brought them all up in the first argument, I talked about how D Will is happy to play with Big Al and Raja Bell. I talked about how only 2 teams have won rings since and since I brought up all the points and debated against them myself I think I can talk about this issue however I feel like it.
The same could be said of you and how you havent disproved them. Its really up to the fans to decide.
Joe Dew
Idaho Falls , ID
Total Comments (197)
The Osmonds should buy the Jazz.
GALAN
Total Comments (38)
Send him to the Bulls.
Assassin: Simile…
Total Comments (32942)
Williams fits Sloan's style of play, he shouldn't leave.
Knight19
Total Comments (211)
But isn't that the very same stuff people bash them about "wanting to be the man". What's wrong with actually sharing the spotlight?
J-Business
Total Comments (892)
Agreed. I was waiting to see how he would defend #2. He said everything was false, but the Jazz haven't won a championship yet. How can he say that is false?
Serial Dex
Total Comments (261)
I disagree. This team is better with Jefferson going between PF and Center and Paul Milsap getting the playing time he deserves. He has been an excellent player when Boozer has been out and they won't miss him at all. They're not a championship team yet, but they are still a playoff team. They could go to the Western Conference Finals, but its clear nobody is going to beat the Lakers next season in the West, so its no surprise they won't win a championship next season.
SloppyJaloppy
Total Comments (1318)
I won't believe the Jazz are out of it until someone drives a wooden stake through Jerry Sloan's heart.
Confucius. Trout
Bat Country, CA
Total Comments (9794)
He said that there is a rumor/connection that Deron Williams will leave for Dallas because the Jazz "still have no title since he re-signed". That is what he needs to disprove.
This TD gets interesting if you look into the matrix of it. Dime Magazine has a two bit sports writer who published an opinion enhanced article. Then you have an upper member of the Utah organization rubbuting the article. Here's a quote from that article...
Deron starred at The Colony High School near Dallas, and last year at the NBA All-Star Game in Dallas, that was the happiest Williams has looked in two years.
Williams was playing in a NBA All-Star game located near His Former High School. There's no reason he shouldn't have Looked Happy. Joe, you're basically trying to argue against a soap opera that can be made to look any way the writer intends for it to look. It's all bogus UNTIL something concrete happens. You can't prove anything. I'm sorry, but you just can't.
HOOTZ
Hooterville, PA
Total Comments (1398)
All in all I dont see him leaving in 2012 unless Cuban sets a very very nice table for him. In other words there has to be other free agents available to play with him that are the right age. Also you are forgetting the NBA is going to lock out in 2011. There is no way the smaller franchise owners are going to allow the continued Rape of their Franchises by the bigger franchises. And there are more small franchises then there are Big Markets. So my bet is they make it so talent either cant move if they are a Franchise player or there is a Hard Cap that wont allow those shenanigans again. My Vote he wont move because he wont be able to
Unkle Freak
Salt Lake City , UT
Total Comments (4)
Great. Nice to see you voting on arguments and not opinion.
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2121)
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