- 10/26/2010, 03:38PM ET
fruity_magoo said 10/26, 03:38 PM
As I have been reading about all the fallout at UNC and the story about the agent who paid NCAA football players, it struck me about the similarities between this scandal and the PED scandal in MLB.
--Will we ever know the full depth of all those involved? Will all players be considered guilty until proven innocent?
--Both were breaches in integrity by players knowingly breaking rules, most of which believed they would never get caught.
--Incredible pressure with very little enforcement or policiing of rules they were breaking.
--A culture of enablement, both active and passive, by everyone within sport.
The difference to me, and why I believe the baseball scandal was worse, was that it impacted the play on the field. And I'm not even talking about inflated statistics and how they compare historically. I'm talking about clean players being at a competitive disadvantage, forced to either join in or risk being passed.
Both scandals disappointed me, even if they weren't a surprise. But to me, baseball players were cheating the game itself, a worse offense in my eyes.
LGP: Pensational! said 10/26, 04:07 PM
More damaging to who?
To the players who use PEDs themselves? Absolutely. PEDs are dangerous and injure the body, therefore the individual players that take them are certainly affected more.
The owners and baseball management? They made out like bandits when the Sosa/Mcguire home run chase re-ignited fans passion for the game after the strike. Hundreds of millions of dollars made...I'd say that's pretty freakin far from damaging.
The positive to come out of that scandal is that players are now vigorously drug tested and scrutinized so that for of cheating is very difficult to pull off now.
What about the college players taking money. For some of those individuals, their football careers are OVER. For others, like Reggie Bush, they more or less get off scott free.
But who else pays? The universities, their fans, all of the athletes who had nothing to do with the scandal and their families pay. That's damage.
-lost scholarships hurts future players
-postseason bans affect all of the above
-the schools lose revenue that future students eventually pay for
Both are damaging no doubt, but clearly the damage done on the college level is much more widespread.
fruity_magoo said 10/26, 04:43 PM
I was meaning "damaging" as it pertains to the sport itself and its perception in the mind of the fan both looking back and moving forward. But, I like the points you bring up.
All of the "who else pays" in your college argument applies to baseball, but I think you are overstating the reach in college. These penalties only apply to those schools that have been punished. Right now, what is that, like 1 at this point (USC), with 1 more to come (UNC)? Outside those schools, it's not very damaging, even though a lot of players/schools have been guilty. PEDs affected entire sport.
Players' who had their college careers end will all play professionally. And to that point, were any of them playing college football for anything but to get paid and play in NFL?
The loss of future scholarships trickles down and hurts a small few for a few years. How many minor leaguers missed out on playing in the majors?
What you call a positive, drug testing, will help level the field for clean players moving forward, but the sport will suffer from less power. Will there be as many fans who are interested in low scoring games with fewer homers? Doubt it. Not in today's culture.
LGP: Pensational! said 10/26, 07:21 PM
"All of the "who else pays" in your college argument applies to baseball"
How exactly? There are no scholarships to lose in MLB. There are no postseason bans for teams. And how exactly does higher tuition due to loss of revenue apply in MLB?
Student athletes who have made their choice are stuck with it, unless of course they want to sit out for a year or transfer to Division II.
"Right now, what is that, like 1 at this point (USC), with 1 more to come (UNC)?"
Tip of the iceberg my friend. This problem is in its infancy and we have no idea how deep or far reaching it is or how far the investigation will go.
PEDs are all but yesterday's news in MLB now. 50 game suspensions await those stupid enough to use PEDs today.
What's actually scandalous is how PED use was handled by the MLB Powers That Be more than the use itself.
"I was meaning "damaging" as it pertains to the sport itself"
Again, we have no idea how much damage is yet to be done. There is a lot of money on the line with TV contracts. Plus, if players accept money, what's to stop them from fixing games too?
fruity_magoo said 10/27, 10:58 AM
Scholarships lost = fringe FBS recruits miss out on scholarship (trickles down)
PEDs = cost minor leaguers a chance to play in majors
Universities = lost revenue from bowl game (although won't they still get share from conference?) & from fans who stop coming to see team that is bad or with no chance to win championship
MLB Franchises = lost revenue from TV deal as ratings drop & lost fan support from fans abandoning game
Real difference is college football fans are MUCH more likely to remain loyal and return to support school after probation (Alabama, OU). What's going to draw baseball fans back?
"This problem is in its infancy and we have no idea how deep or far reaching it is or how far the investigation will go."
Exactly. And if history is any indication, NCAA will not do much else. They can't hurt that many schools. Too much $$ on the line. NCAA is agent of schools. They will sweep rest of "iceberg" unde the rug.
Teams were cheating even more blatantly back in the 50's and on into the 80's. How many of those teams who were caught cheating paid no to little consequences and are doing fine now? Their revenue streams look pretty good.
LGP: Pensational! said 10/27, 11:56 AM
"What's going to draw baseball fans back?"
Back?? They never left! And here's proof:
"Major League Baseball set (attendance) records in 2007, with a total of 79.5 million and an average of 32,785."
The PED scandal has been around more than a decade and MLB sets attendance records! Hell, PEDs did more to SAVE baseball at the gates than damage it. The only reason attendance down the last couple years is the economy.
"cost minor leaguers a chance to play in majors"
First of all, minor leaguers were using PEDs so no sympathy there. Second, the numbers to miss out on the majors due to PED use is miniscule.
I say again, MLB thrived financially b/c of PEDs, therfore the only ones "damaged" were the players themselves.
"They will sweep rest of "iceberg" unde the rug."
Nice assumption, but I hardly think the media will let them get away with that now. This is not going away any time soon...the problem and exposure will only grow!
PEDs= Millionaire players' bodies damaged, financial windfall for the sport.
Agents paying players= players, families, coaches and universities damaged.
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