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- 11/14/2010, 12:04AM ET
"More valuable than Rivers...whose high stats are just a product of his team's record"
Confucius. Trout said 11/14, 12:04 AM
This TD is not about you saying Rivers isn't the MVP, or about you thinking Foster is more valuable (even though your logic is warped). It's about you saying Rivers stats are just a product of his teams record.
MAYBE all the yards he's gotten are a bit inflated, but there are more to his stat sheet than yards.
Let me ask you this, how does his team's record effect his efficiency?
8.95 yards an attempt is amazing, especially when you consider that Rivers is well on his way to his 3rd straight season of leading the league in yards/attempt (Basically, the most efficient passer).
And I think something should also be said. Coming into this season everyone was saying that Rivers was going to struggle because the Chargers front office was **** up.
Well, so far with no LT and no Jackson Rivers is putting up, not just career highs, but historic numbers.
Then against the Texans, he was missing his top 5 receiving threats coming into this season. And he threw for 4 TD's and 295 yards on just 23 attempts.
Even Peyton Manning can't do that.
Let's try not to explain away Rivers stats away with the Chargers record, they'd have just 1-2 wins if it weren't for Rivers.
Bear likes this DEFENSE said 11/14, 12:41 AM
4TDs on 23 att is amazing
but you are wrong...Manning HAS done just that
1. 2007 v Balt. 17att, 4TD
2. 2004 v Detroit. 6TD on 28att
3. 2003 v Saints. 6TD on 25 att
the '10 chargers have only rushed for 100+yds 4x
they have been held under 100rushYd 5x
maybe compare that to the '09 Saints who rushed for over 100yds in all but 4 games
8.9 yds/att is not unusual
this year alone Vick, Big Ben, & VinceYoung have more than 8.0yds/att this year
and yes. Rivers is having his 3rd straight good year.
oddly, isnt that appx when LT's production started declining?
LT
06 1815 rush yds
07 1474
08 1110
09 730
rivers
06 3388 pass yds
07 3152
08 4009
09 4254
the trend is clear...as SanDiego runs less, Rivers passes more
look. Rivers is GREAT. definately top 10 NFL
should his stats matter. YES
but we need some perspective on his stats
its like when a run 1st team wins 30-0 compared to a pass happy team winning 60-0. you cant automatically say the 60-0 win = the better team.
look at recent comp% winners
pennington(08), carr(06) palmer (05)greise(04)
are they better than manning/brady?
WHO WOULD YOU START? manning or rivers
Confucius. Trout said 11/14, 07:53 PM
"we need some perspective on his stats"
I agree, perspective is great. I say that all the time. Which is why I would appreciate if you'd not completely ignore the one that I mentioned.
YARDS AN ATTEMPT
I did not once mention completion % in my argument, because it is quite easily the most overrated stat in sports.
Look at the leaders in Yards/attempt the past 5 seasons ( not including this one):
09- Rivers
08- Rivers
07- Brady
06- Romo
05- Roethlisberger
A much better list than the ones for Comp%, right?
"San Diego runs less, Rivers passes more"
Amazing piece of football knowledge, but using your "perspective" reasoning I think it's fair to point out that Rivers has NEVER finished a season ranked higher than 12th in attempts
And even this year he ranks 4th, your BFF Manning ranks 2nd.
I never said Manning hasn't had an efficient game like that, I said he never had that type of game with all his receivers injured
Seriously everyone humps his leg because he can dink and dunk no matter who's in the line-up. Rivers gets big plays no matter who he's throwing to, which is the point I was trying to make.
MMTC
Bear likes this DEFENSE said 11/15, 04:45 PM
Yards per attempt can be a very subjective stat too. [tony romo led the league in 2006!]
Lets say QB-A plays in a system where you launch the ball downfield a lot. He might have a higher yds/att avg than QB-B who plays in a short passing game style
PLUS...you ignore the most glaring fact that a QB can throw the ball on a 5 yd dumpoff to a RB or WR and the guy runs 80yds for a TD! Was the QB directly responsible for 80 yds? no. he tossed it 5 yds...the playmaker bumped up the yds/att stat.
san diego is often behind in a game...hence rivers passes a LOT.
and if you want to look at yds/pass comp... derek anderson led the league in 07...patrick ramsey in 02.
Manning isnt honored bc he can dink and dunk.
he is honored more than Rivers bc he is a BETTER QUARTERBACK!
Manning makes fewer mistakes and has forgotten more about reading defenses than Rivers will ever know.
Rivers just isnt in the league of Bres/Manning/Brady
you are looking JUST at his stats. you ignore everything else about the game and his team and the situations in which he racks up yds
that kind of thinking is what got andre ware a heisman!
Confucius. Trout said 11/15, 04:54 PM
To summarize your argument:
Stats are bad and evil. Manning is a god because ESPN has brain washed me into believing he is unbreakable. I love the SEC and think no one outside of it should ever win anything ever. And Rivers isn't good because all he does is produce on the field.
Wonderful.
Bear likes this DEFENSE said 11/15, 08:40 PM
stats are not evil....but like anything it can be twisted to say what you want them to say.
Its like when you look at a QB's number of INTs at the end of the year. if QB-A has 20 INTs and QB-B only has 12 you may think A is much worse than B.
But what you dont realize is "A" had 6 passes tipped by WRs and intercepted and maybe "B" plays in a system that doesnt even throw 1/2 as many passes.
Before Brees the saints had a crappy QB named Aaron Brooks...but he often had "good stats" bc they were always losing and had to air it out.
Teams would give up the underneath routes and focus on preventing long bombs. Hence...a high yds/att stat!
I have no problem with any team from any conf winning.
But I do have a problem with Boise playing a WEAK schedule getting a title game spot over a 1 loss SEC team that plays more ranked teams in 1 year than Boise sees in 3.
Google "Andre Ware" and you will see how stats can be misleading.
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Comments (20) Add A Comment
And if anyone was wondering, his logic is warped because the Texans are a .500 team and the Chargers are just 1 game under .500
Confucius. Trout
Bat Country, CA
Total Comments (9794)
More Rivers knob-gobbling...
Jld
Total Comments (1223)
all i am saying is rivers' stats dont automatically mean he is the best QB in the league
nobody would take rivers over manning
Bear likes this…
Total Comments (564)
I disagree.
Assassin: Simile…
Total Comments (32942)
"the trend is clear...as SanDiego runs less, Rivers passes more"
Really? So your saying when you dont run you tend to pass? Thats **** crazy, you should work for ESPN. Your literally **** blowing my mind.
:CubanMissile:
Chicagoland, IL
Total Comments (2115)
I'd take Rivers over Eli.
williewilliejuan
Total Comments (35066)
Who the Hell is Jackson Rivers?
Muad'Dib
Total Comments (131)
I'd like to order this pair of shoes please.
Muad'Dib
Total Comments (131)
i know!
but left is saying the fact rivers has the most pass yds = he is the best QB
i say NO
i say i'd rather have brees/manning/brady WAAAAY before id have rivers QB my team
Bear likes this…
Total Comments (564)
Do they come in green ??
Swamp Dragon
Total Comments (13807)
It's a character in a 1992 movie called Delta Heat the character is played by Lance Hendiksen
Swamp Dragon
Total Comments (13807)
Thank you Tony DiNozzo
yellowlighter
Total Comments (23)
More stupid comments.
Seriously, if you don't like it don't read it. No need to be a dick.
Confucius. Trout
Bat Country, CA
Total Comments (9794)
I forgot to put in a comma.
Confucius. Trout
Bat Country, CA
Total Comments (9794)
That's not what I said.
Why do you have to lie? Don't you know that every time you lie a starving 3rd world puppy dies?
Confucius. Trout
Bat Country, CA
Total Comments (9794)
Fouts was better but Fucius would never admit that....
DJRoxalot
Total Comments (108505)
LOL.
DJRoxalot
Total Comments (108505)
Classic 3rd arg.
YODA
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (7422)
Stats are evil?
BLASPHEMY!!!
DJRoxalot
Total Comments (108505)
What is the deal with your man love with Phillip Rivers? Isn't it funny how San Diego drafts Rivers with a top 5 pick when they already had Drew Brees, then lets Drew Brees walk for nothing, and Drew Brees goes onto to win a Superbowl in New Orleans and is arguably the best QB in the NFL all the while San Diego still can't win playoff games? The Chargers remind me of the Chiefs in the mid 2000's, lots of regular season wins, no playoff success. Rivers is like the modern day Trent Green.
Honestly, keep Phillip Rivers, he can rack up stats and numbers while Manning, Brady, Brees, are winning playoff games. Rivers is a top 5 QB, but come on, he is no Manning, Brady, or Brees. He just isn't.
we_are___
State College, PA
Total Comments (266)
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