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  • 02/03/2011, 11:30PM ET

Pettitte to the HOF?

YankeesFan (89-63-11) vs Sabih (102-48-19)
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This is a tough call, but I say that Pettitte deserves to be in the hall of fame. I know that stats aside, steroids may hold him out, but whoever takes this, please just argue about stats and not whether known roiders will get into the HOF.

Pettitte has a career record of 240-138 (%.635), and averages 17 wins a year despite having a couple of injury shortened years.

He's had 2 20+ win seasons, and led the league in wins in 1996 as just a young unproven 2nd year 24 year old.

He has a career 3.88 ERA, and 3 top 5 Cy Young voting finishes. He is also a 3-time allstar, and has received votes for MVP in two different years.

He has 2251 strike outs (top 50 alltime), and close to 7 strike outs per 9 innings.

But besides the wins, good winning percentage, and decent ERA, I think what puts him in is his playoff performances.

His 19 playoff wins are an MLB record, as are his 6 series clinching wins. Having 5 world series titles doesn't hurt his cause either.

His regular season stats have him as a borderline HOFer, but being the alltime leader in playoff and series clinching wins, and having 5 WS rings, I think Pettitte should eventually be in.


Pettite is also an admitted PED (HGH) user. Initially, he admitted that he only used them twice to comeback from an injury in 2002.

Then he admitted to using them again in 04 by obtaining prescriptions under his father's name.

Without the HGH use like you said Pettite is borderline.

He has ZERO Cy Youngs, one ALCS MVP. Only 3 All-Stars.

Compare that to Glavine (who should be a HOFer) who had 10 All-Stars, 2 Cy Youngs and a World Series MVP.

His winning % greatly aided by playing for the most successful franchise in MLB.

You talk about post-season wins. He was not exactly Cliff Lee in the postseason. He was 19-10. While a great record, his Win % is only a slight improvement of .655 is only a slight improvement over his career season Win % .635.

His record wins are also the result of him being in the playoffs 13 of 16 seasons. And often going deep into the playoffs as a result of playing on some great NYY teams.

Add to that how stacked the Yankees usually are especially when they get into the playoffs and would run through opponents.

He was never the ace of the staff. Always the #2 or #3 guy in rotation.


Let's look at the stats of a pitcher who is in the hall of fame, Jim Bunning. Bunning played into the 70s, and was inducted into the HOF in 1996 so it's not really outdated.

Bunning: 224-184, 3.27 ERA, yes 7 allstars, but 0 Cy Youngs.

Bunning had only 1 20+ win season, and he got 20 flat, and averaged a record just above .500 of 14-11 per season.

Pettite had more wins than Bunning, less losses, and most importantly, had a winning % almost .100 higher.

If Bunning made the HOF, Pettitte deserves to be in off of his regular season stats alone.

Don't discredit his playoff success due to his great offense. His playoff ERA is lower than his regular season ERA, as is his winning percentage.

You say his winning percentage for the playoffs only went up marginally, but %.655 is still really good.

I never explicitly said he WOULD get in, due to of course steroids, I said he deserved to be in, and SHOULD be in. I don't think he will get in because he is borderline as is, and the steroids will push him the wrong way off of the border.

But going off of stats and his clutch performances, arguable the best playoff pitcher ever, he deserves to be in the HOF.


Things about Bunning you forgot to mention. He pitched a perfect game. When he retired he had the second highest strikeout total. Furthermore, since when is Jim Bunning the yard stick we measure HOFers by. Just because the may have let one questionable player in does not mean they should open the flood gates.

There are players in the HOF whose careers are worse than Pettite's but that does not mean Pettite should be in the HOF, it means those guys shouldn't.


never explicitly said he WOULD get in, due to of course steroids, I said he deserved to be in, and SHOULD be in.

You cannot ignore the steroid use, it hangs like a huge cloud over any player from that era. You do not know if the stats are tainted. He SHOULDN'T get in partially because of using HGH.

He also SHOULDN'T get in because Pettite was not dominant like Clemens or Pedro or Randy Johnson. His WHIP is 717th all-time. Only one HOF pitcher has a higher WHIP. (Thank you ESPN) 4 Shutouts in his career.

0 Complete Games in Postseason, let alone shutouts.

Pettite was a good pitcher but he is not worthy of HOF.

February 3, 2011  11:36 PM ET

The Hall of Good (not even Very Good) yes, but the Hall of Fame no. Besides

HGH


maybe after Canseco gets in.

February 3, 2011  11:40 PM ET

yeah, him taking PEDs just isn't going to sit well with the voters

February 3, 2011  11:40 PM ET

February 3, 2011  11:44 PM ET
QUOTE(#2):

yeah, him taking PEDs just isn't going to sit well with the voters

"please just argue about stats and not whether known roiders will get into the HOF"

February 3, 2011  11:45 PM ET
QUOTE(#4):

"please just argue about stats and not whether known roiders will get into the HOF"

Then he has a long line to wait behind

Barry Bonds
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa
Rafael Palmeiro
Roger Clemons
etc
etc
etc

Comment #6 has been removed
February 3, 2011  11:56 PM ET
QUOTE(#4):

"please just argue about stats and not whether known roiders will get into the HOF"

I'm not arguing in the TD, I'm just stating facts in the comments

am I not allowed to do that?

February 4, 2011  12:01 AM ET

Its funny I got logged onto FN and was gonna start this TD and saw this in OPEN TD section.

February 4, 2011  12:03 AM ET

He was never great.....Never an ace always a 2 or 3. And never won a Cy Young.

February 4, 2011  12:07 AM ET
QUOTE(#8):

Its funny I got logged onto FN and was gonna start this TD and saw this in OPEN TD section.

You got lucky. No way is Petitte a HoFer. Easy pickens.

February 4, 2011  12:07 AM ET

He also had the most career post season starts with over 40

February 4, 2011  12:12 AM ET

Only first ballot Hall of Fame pitchers I see in the forseeeable future in no particular order....Pedro Martinez, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Randy Johnson.

February 4, 2011  12:14 AM ET
QUOTE(#10):

You got lucky. No way is Petitte a HoFer. Easy pickens.

I thought if I started it I might get blamed for an easy win attempt. Only reason I considered doing it was because I saw Wilbon on PTI say he is a HOFer.

February 4, 2011  12:24 AM ET

Tired, I'll do my next argument in the morning

February 4, 2011  12:25 AM ET
QUOTE(#13):

I thought if I started it I might get blamed for an easy win attempt. Only reason I considered doing it was because I saw Wilbon on PTI say he is a HOFer.

You might have, but as a Yankees homer, I felt obligated to make this and defend him

February 4, 2011  12:26 AM ET

He wont get in.....If anything Mike Mussina has a far better chance than him

February 4, 2011  12:39 AM ET

Yes

February 4, 2011  06:21 AM ET

Too many players with better careers aren't getting in because of PED's. Until those guys get in, no chance for Pettitte, as he lied at first as well.

Personally, they may want to make a "Steroid Wing" in the HOF for these players.

February 4, 2011  09:29 AM ET

HGH, no.
And there are not too many guys not getting in due to PED usage, if anything not enough are being kept out. PEDS=no hall.

 
February 4, 2011  09:33 AM ET
QUOTE(#2):

yeah, him taking PEDs just isn't going to sit well with the voters

And the fact that he had one chance to be honest about it and he blew it... like every other player that was caught.

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