- 02/03/2011, 11:30PM ET
YankeesFan said 02/03, 11:30 PM
This is a tough call, but I say that Pettitte deserves to be in the hall of fame. I know that stats aside, steroids may hold him out, but whoever takes this, please just argue about stats and not whether known roiders will get into the HOF.
Pettitte has a career record of 240-138 (%.635), and averages 17 wins a year despite having a couple of injury shortened years.
He's had 2 20+ win seasons, and led the league in wins in 1996 as just a young unproven 2nd year 24 year old.
He has a career 3.88 ERA, and 3 top 5 Cy Young voting finishes. He is also a 3-time allstar, and has received votes for MVP in two different years.
He has 2251 strike outs (top 50 alltime), and close to 7 strike outs per 9 innings.
But besides the wins, good winning percentage, and decent ERA, I think what puts him in is his playoff performances.
His 19 playoff wins are an MLB record, as are his 6 series clinching wins. Having 5 world series titles doesn't hurt his cause either.
His regular season stats have him as a borderline HOFer, but being the alltime leader in playoff and series clinching wins, and having 5 WS rings, I think Pettitte should eventually be in.
Sabih said 02/04, 12:00 AM
Pettite is also an admitted PED (HGH) user. Initially, he admitted that he only used them twice to comeback from an injury in 2002.
Then he admitted to using them again in 04 by obtaining prescriptions under his father's name.
Without the HGH use like you said Pettite is borderline.
He has ZERO Cy Youngs, one ALCS MVP. Only 3 All-Stars.
Compare that to Glavine (who should be a HOFer) who had 10 All-Stars, 2 Cy Youngs and a World Series MVP.
His winning % greatly aided by playing for the most successful franchise in MLB.
You talk about post-season wins. He was not exactly Cliff Lee in the postseason. He was 19-10. While a great record, his Win % is only a slight improvement of .655 is only a slight improvement over his career season Win % .635.
His record wins are also the result of him being in the playoffs 13 of 16 seasons. And often going deep into the playoffs as a result of playing on some great NYY teams.
Add to that how stacked the Yankees usually are especially when they get into the playoffs and would run through opponents.
He was never the ace of the staff. Always the #2 or #3 guy in rotation.
YankeesFan said 02/04, 10:24 AM
Let's look at the stats of a pitcher who is in the hall of fame, Jim Bunning. Bunning played into the 70s, and was inducted into the HOF in 1996 so it's not really outdated.
Bunning: 224-184, 3.27 ERA, yes 7 allstars, but 0 Cy Youngs.
Bunning had only 1 20+ win season, and he got 20 flat, and averaged a record just above .500 of 14-11 per season.
Pettite had more wins than Bunning, less losses, and most importantly, had a winning % almost .100 higher.
If Bunning made the HOF, Pettitte deserves to be in off of his regular season stats alone.
Don't discredit his playoff success due to his great offense. His playoff ERA is lower than his regular season ERA, as is his winning percentage.
You say his winning percentage for the playoffs only went up marginally, but %.655 is still really good.
I never explicitly said he WOULD get in, due to of course steroids, I said he deserved to be in, and SHOULD be in. I don't think he will get in because he is borderline as is, and the steroids will push him the wrong way off of the border.
But going off of stats and his clutch performances, arguable the best playoff pitcher ever, he deserves to be in the HOF.
Sabih said 02/05, 03:49 AM
Things about Bunning you forgot to mention. He pitched a perfect game. When he retired he had the second highest strikeout total. Furthermore, since when is Jim Bunning the yard stick we measure HOFers by. Just because the may have let one questionable player in does not mean they should open the flood gates.
There are players in the HOF whose careers are worse than Pettite's but that does not mean Pettite should be in the HOF, it means those guys shouldn't.
never explicitly said he WOULD get in, due to of course steroids, I said he deserved to be in, and SHOULD be in.
You cannot ignore the steroid use, it hangs like a huge cloud over any player from that era. You do not know if the stats are tainted. He SHOULDN'T get in partially because of using HGH.
He also SHOULDN'T get in because Pettite was not dominant like Clemens or Pedro or Randy Johnson. His WHIP is 717th all-time. Only one HOF pitcher has a higher WHIP. (Thank you ESPN) 4 Shutouts in his career.
0 Complete Games in Postseason, let alone shutouts.
Pettite was a good pitcher but he is not worthy of HOF.
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