- 02/10/2011, 03:02PM ET
Outlaw... said 02/10, 03:02 PM
Must be in order
1. Fedor Emelianenko
Let's see been fighting for over a decade and only has one real loss. Pretty much, you change this, you lose.
2. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
He has the best BJJ of any HW all time, he has a 32-record. Legendary chin. 20 wins via submission. Back in his prime, the only man that could beat him was Fedor. He could take a beating, and win the fight via arm bar. One of the best technical fighters we have ever seen.
3. Randy Couture
Yeah, he did spend a good bit of time at LHW, but he was still the 3x UFC Heavyweight champion. He's tough as nails, and still is a great wrestler.
4. Mirko Cro Cop
Mirko is one of the best strikers in MMA history. He's lost a touch or two since joining the UFC, but in his day hospital and cemetary struck fear into any opponent. He never was champion in Pride, but keep in mind number 1 and 2 on my list were in Pride as well.
5. Igor Vovchanchyn
Casual fans have never heard of him, but he was a Pride legend, and had a streak of 30 wins in a row at one point. He retired kind of young, but he was a great fighter, and is top 5 all time IMO.
JimJ77 Can't make it up said 02/10, 04:01 PM
Very solid list. I'm going.
How can anyone really disagree?
Same deal. He's a no brainer #2 IMO.
3. Cro Cop
Agree with everything you said about Cro Cop. Fedor and Nog were always in his way in Pride, but there is no doubt the man is a legend in the sport, and one of the top heavyweight strikers in the history of MMA.
4. Igor Vovchanchyn
I'd be pretty dumb not to include Igor in my top 5. Not too many current MMA fans know of him. One of the very best kickboxers to grace the sport.
5. Bas Rutten
This pick might be a little biased, but I've always felt that Bas was one of the top 5 heavyweights ever. The ultimate warrior. The man definitely has a screw loose. Won King of Pancrase, and was the UFC heavyweight champ.
Thats the list. I will expand upon why I did not include Randy on my list in further args.
Outlaw... said 02/10, 06:49 PM
I'm a fan of Bas, but I can't have him on my list.
Back when he was fighting, weight classes weren't really there, and evn though he would barely classify as a HW, he was still beating guys that were smaller than him..
He was the King of Pancrase, but those were open weight tournaments, where the biggest competition came from Ken and Frank Shamrock, and the Shamrocks kind of had his number.
Yeah, he won the UFC HW championship in a very controversial decision where Kevin Randleman was on top, but Rutten was given the decision, and he never defended his title, he retired shortly after winning it.
Randy on the other hand is a 3x UFC HW champion, and has defended his title, and even though he fought as a LHW sometimes, he fought against other HWs when he was a HW.
Couture has lost more fights than Rutten, but he also faced much better competition than Rutten.
Randy has also stood the test of time much better, and like any other sport, longevity helps the arguments.
Hell, he beat Tim Sylvia for the HW championship when he was 45 years old.
Randy has held the belt more than any other fighter in UFC history, and is the oldest champ ever.
Randy belongs here.
JimJ77 Can't make it up said 02/11, 06:22 PM
First off, the reason why I believe Bas deserves to be in the top 5 over Randy is because IMO Bas Rutten was a more all around fighter. His standup is of course legendary. There is no doubt his standup was much better than Randy's ever was.
After Bas was submitted by Ken Shamrock, he submitted like 7 out of 8 fighters after that. So, he took his world class kickboxing and evolved his ground game, and submission game to take his game to another level. He was a perfect Mixed martial artist.
And thats just the physical aspect of his game. Bas was just a natural born fighter. The man, was scared of no one. He was very intimidating, and a lot of his fights were won before he even stepped into the cage.
Randy is a legend in the UFC. He accomplished a lot of god things, and people are often skeptical to criticize him. But, lets be honest. He did not have the skill of Bas. He was a clincher, a Greco Roman wrestler, who would out will you.
And on top of that, I bet half of his 29 fights were at Light Heavy weight. So, half were at heavyweight. What was Randy's record at heavyweight? 10-5 Maybe? To me, thats not one of the top 5 HW's of all time.
Bas is top 5, Randy is not.
Outlaw... said 02/11, 07:20 PM
You're saying Randy had to many fights at LHW to qualify?
I think that's pushing given that Bas was fighting mostly open weight tournaments and most of his fights were against mighters smaller than him.
Bas was beating Middleweights, and Welterweights in many fights, and to me that isn't as impressive as beating people that weight the same amount.
It's the pick on somebody your own size deal.
Even if Randy fought at LHW, he is still the 3 time UFC Heavyweight Champion, and has fought better competition during his time.
You're making it sound like Randy was scared of people, and that's never been the case.
Randy is just as fearless as Bas ever was, and I would give Randy the edge in toughness.
Many people still believe that Kevin Randleman beat Rutten way back when for the belt, and I tend to agree. Randleman was on top most of the fight.
I love Bas Rutten, and he's on the top 10 list, but putting him in the top 5, and putting him over the 3x HW champ is pushing it IMO.
Randy Couture>Bas Rutten
Good TD Jim.
JimJ77 Can't make it up said 02/12, 05:15 PM
Instead of arguing Randy Couture vs Bas Rutten for my 3rd argument, I figured I would just argue why Randy does not belong in the #3 spot where you have him.
I'm a big fan of Randy. Who isn't really? But to rank him the #3 heavyweight of all time is a little over the top. I'm going to chalk that up to the UFC hype machine at work. Now is Randy one of the best ever? Sure he is. I even have him just outside my top 10.
But to have him ranked ahead of a guy like Cro Cop? I'm not so sure about that. Cro Cop fought in Pride when Pride was the best promotion in the world. He fought the best ever. Fedor, Big Nog, etc.
He beat Vovchanchyn, Waterman, Minowa, Randleman, Fujita, Wanderlei. He beat Josh Barnett twice. Randy was clobbered by Barnett.
To me Cro Cop is much more deserving of being ranked #3 heavyweight ever than Randy Couture was. Cro Cop fought some of the best fighters ever. His list exceeds the list that Randy carries.
Randy Couture, one of the best ever, just not the 3rd best ever. And no way better than Cro Cop.
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