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  • 03/14/2011, 01:57PM ET

Holy Cross "Crusaders". That name's gotta go.

Schad - Notorious Deadbeat (54-39-9) vs HQQD (7-3-1)
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For the last few years, there has been off and on debate as far as names of college teams. Teams such as the North Dakota Fighting Sioux have been asked to change their name but they say they are honoring the Sioux.

Holy Cross can't do that. They named their sports teams after one of the worst times of medieval history, The Crusades.

History on the Crusades.

In 1095, Pope Urban II got a letter from his Byzantine counterpart Emperor Alexios I that he needed help from the Muslim Turks that were invading his area and threatening Constantinople, now called Istanbul.

Urban II put together some fiery speeches with outright lies in them to put Jerusalem back into Christian hands. For the next few years, the army would march to Istanbul and beyond and kill those they felt were infidels. At first, was the Jews. Thousands of Jews were murdered by these Crusaders, and it would not be the last massacre.

By 1099, the Crusader army would have massacred over 100,000 civilians, Muslim, Jews and Christian. They massacred over 30,000 in Jerusalem alone and in Ma'arrat al-Numan, they massacred all the citizens then turned to cannibalism.

Why is HC honoring this?


Humanity is imperfect.

What is an orange compared to an apple? Is it the color and texture of it's skin? Sweet though both maybe, they are different yet have parts that look the same.

Holy Cross was founded in 1843 and later in 1884 was given the moniker Crusaders after an engraving found on a dinner menu.

What are some of the components that make a Crusade? A key ingredient are Knights. Politics isn't perfect, but a Knight strives for 17 Codes of Chivalry, here are just a few.

Keep the faith

Protect the weak & defenceless

Speak the truth

Live by honor & glory

Crusade - A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse.

In 1856, Seton Hall, a private Catholic School, is founded and their sports nickname is the Pirates.

Pirating has been going on longer than the origins of the very 1st Crusades, way back into the 13th century BC, and still goes on today. Piracy involves:

Pillaging

Violence

Raping

Piracy - Robbery on the seas.

A Sports Team's nickname is to inspire your tribe & place fear into your opponents. No one nickname is perfect. Next, is a Cowboy nickname any better.


Here is the difference between the codes the knights allegedly lived by and what happened on the Crusades.

The Crusades were about terrorism.

The Crusades were about massacre.

The Crusades had no redeeming value, at all. After the massacres, sieges, cannibalism, and destruction, they didn't accomplish anything, except make the violent divide between religions more evident.

You make note of these codes, yet none of these existed in the Crusades, so therefore, that point is not valid here. Politics really didn't have a lot to do with anything in the Crusades, it was about taking cities, killing those who they felt were infidels, killing innocent citizens and trying to garner the riches of said destruction.

Please show me those "codes" in action in the First Crusade.

Antioch? Nope.

Ma'arrat al-Numan? Nope.

Nicacea? None there either.

You still haven't explained why these actions should be honored. You blame politics, but politics didn't commit cannibalism, those knights you say were living with the code did.

So, I'll ask again, why should they be honored?


I want to be a Cowboy. In the American Revolution, a Cowboy was one who opposed independence from British rule. The pioneers that were pro independence were called the Skinners.

What's in a name? Everything in sports. Who wants to be called the Wyoming Skinners?

Cattlemen were called Herders or Ranchers. A Cowboy is associated with crime & one of the most famous is the Gunfight at the OK Corral. The Dallas Herders or Oklahoma State Ranchers will not do.

The intent of the Crusades was not about terrorism nor was it about massacre. Brothers in arms battle together for what they believe is right even if it's wrong.

The Order of the Knights Templor, lead by Hugues de Payens, was created to protect pilgrims on their way to visit Holy Sites. IHow is that wrong?

The wrongful acts by a few should not condemn the entire group by affiliation.

Also, the Knights Templor is associated with the Freemasonry fraternity. Membership today is about 6 million strong. This fraternity is involved in many charitable services, here are just a few:

Nursing care/sheltred homes
Educational grants
Medical assistance
Shriners Hospitals for Children

It's just sports after all.


First off, you are wrong about the Knights Templar. Pope Clement formally disbanded the Order in 1312.

A lot of them executed on "Friday the Thirteenth" October 13, 1307 with an order that stated "Dieu n'est pas content, nous avons des ennemis de la foi dans le Royaume".

You are also wrong about the connotation of Cowboy:

The word "cowboy" appeared in the English language by 1725. It appears to be a direct English translation of vaquero, a Spanish word for an individual who managed cattle while mounted on horseback.

No talk of American Revolution there.

As far as "intent", there is an old phrase that states "Hell is full of good intentions".

The wrongful acts by a few should not condemn the entire group by affiliation.

I'm sorry, my history books never mentioned the Crusaders who were stating that it was wrong to commit massacres in Antioch, Ma'arrat al-Numan, Jerusalem and Nicacea. Oh, that's because there weren't any. No one stopped it, from the leaders to the ones committing the massacres.

The oldest known Freemasonry text dates from 1390 and the lodges started in the late 1500's. That's a long time from 1312. Missed the boat there as well.


Why does HCU have to change their Sport's name? You are welcome to your views regarding the Crusades, but every story has a different side to tell. Have you never been on a crusade yourself? Haven't you believed in something so strong that it might have blinded you from doing something that is considered wrong by others?

Why does one name a team a certain way? Why would Miami University honor such a horrific event like the Hurricane? Because it's destructive, causes misery and death? Or perhaps the school takes the positive side of it & you see the strength & the sheer magnitude of a Hurricane.

HCU had several options to choose from. One of them happened to be an engraving of a Knight that was on a menu. When the votes were turned in, the image of the crusading Knight was the winner. They do not honor events that happened many centuries ago, but they take the positive aspect of the symbol - loyalty, strength, truthfulness and glory just to name a few.

Would you rather have one of these as your team name?

UCSC Banana Slugs

Evergreen State Geoducks

Delta State U Fighting Okra

New Mexico Tech Pygmies

Long Beach State Dirtbags

Grays Harbor College Chokers

March 14, 2011  02:05 PM ET

I don't like teams having to change their name to just be politically correct.

Hell some people criticize the Braves for selling foam tomahawks for the chop, but most people don't know the foam tomahawks are made by Cherokee manufacturers in North Carolina.

March 14, 2011  02:06 PM ET

MMTC

March 14, 2011  02:17 PM ET

I'll try to get this after classes.

March 14, 2011  02:47 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

I don't like teams having to change their name to just be politically correct. Hell some people criticize the Braves for selling foam tomahawks for the chop, but most people don't know the foam tomahawks are made by Cherokee manufacturers in North Carolina.

Exactly. Its stupid the political-correct pukes went after Florida State, for example.... WHO IS LEGALLY ALLOWED BY THE SEMINOLE TRIBE TO USE THEIR NAME!

I read an article that the tribe leadership was actually pretty angry that someone tried to force FSU to get rid of the mascot.

If you're going to go after anyone, go after the Redskins, not Holy Cross or Florida State.

Granted, the Crusades aren't exactly something to model... but so what? Crusader knights were good fighters at least, something you want in a mascot. Plus they look cool.

March 14, 2011  02:50 PM ET

Minnesota Golden Gophers FTW!!

March 14, 2011  02:52 PM ET

And have to get rid of Ole Miss Rebels too. That evokes the American Civil War and slavery. Gotta go!

March 14, 2011  02:54 PM ET

And the San Diego State Aztecs.

The Aztecs massacred hundreds of thousands of people, and were into human sacrifice and such. Get rid of them too!

March 14, 2011  02:58 PM ET

Remembered another one:

Crimson Tide is a nod to an Alabama regiment in the Civil War who wore red vests into battle over their gray uniforms, and thus came at the Northern forces like a "Crimson Tide." Racist. Get rid of it.

Comment #9 has been removed
March 14, 2011  03:19 PM ET
QUOTE(#9):

Keep the name. History repeated is history once forgotten. Plus, that would mean the Indiana Fightin' Nazis would have to change, too.

I'll have to Google that team.

March 14, 2011  03:40 PM ET

How about something as simple as the Hoosiers....some say it is traced back to hillbilly rednecks...this could be considered as ethnic racism as well.

March 14, 2011  03:43 PM ET

But braves fans are a bunch of red neck crackers, new team name non-pc you will love it, so they don't care who they offend anyway. we are talking about civilized people.
Racist!

March 14, 2011  03:44 PM ET
QUOTE(#9):

Keep the name. History repeated is history once forgotten. Plus, that would mean the Indiana Fightin' Nazis would have to change, too.

I hate Illinois Nazis...

March 14, 2011  07:01 PM ET

Anyone who gets their feelings hurt over a sports teams mascot is a huge ****! If all the people who want everything to be so politically correct, then they should shut up and keep the issues out of the spotlight. Why would anyone rant about how wrong it is to disgrace a race by calling themselves Seminoles? Im a Christian and I dont care if a teams mascot is called the Devils. Its a mascot, GET OVER IT!

March 14, 2011  07:19 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

I don't like teams having to change their name to just be politically correct.Hell some people criticize the Braves for selling foam tomahawks for the chop, but most people don't know the foam tomahawks are made by Cherokee manufacturers in North Carolina.

I say bring back Chief Nokahoma!!!

March 14, 2011  07:25 PM ET
QUOTE(#13):

I hate Illinois Nazis...

Yeah I hate them too cause they keep beating the Milwakee Jews

March 14, 2011  07:26 PM ET
QUOTE:

Hey, the Crusades were all in good fun. Thinning the ethnic population back in the day was probably a smart idea. Probably wouldn't hurt today either.

can't argue with thinning the population now, but back then people were uh...less dumb, or at least had an excuse for being dumb

March 14, 2011  07:26 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):



Ouch.

March 14, 2011  07:37 PM ET

I don't see any teams called the Fighting Hitlers.

Iowa Fighter Hitlers.

 
March 14, 2011  07:38 PM ET
QUOTE(#19):

Ouch.

OMG....LMAO!

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