- 03/21/2011, 10:28AM ET
Woodee3384 said 03/21, 01:10 PM
I thought before the Shogun fight that Jones was one of the best fighters round. But after seeing what he did to Shogun and how easy he did I am ready to say he is the best fighter around.
Shogun is one of the best strikers in MMA and he couldn't even touch Jones. Jones's reach will play a big part in every fight he has. Shogun wasn't even able to attempt a leg kick because Jones could keep the much of distance between them. And the way Jones can mix up his strikes and the speed at which he can throw punches and kicks are only matched by a few fighters.
Then we get to his wrestling. After watching who easy he rolled through Hamill and Bader, and they're 2 great wrestlers, I think he is completely unstoppable. I know his chin hasn't been really tested yet. I think Shogun landed a descent shot but other than that, nothing.
I know of the few fighters that people will bring up and have already brought up but that fact that he is 23 and getting better every fight and he rolls with great trainers and Greg Jackson who is great at game planning, the sky is the limit for this kid. Plus this kid seems like he's down to earth and loves the sport. Both good things.
Roni said 03/21, 07:27 PM
Ok Woodie, as promised.
First of all, Let me take away the fact that Rua was not really himself on this fight. Let out the fact his gameplan was... inexistent.
I take NOTHING away from Bones.
Thoroughly dominated the champ.
Never lost a round.
* undefeated. (yes, I know he lost to Matt Hamill, but who are we kidding?)
Makes everyone who fights him look like amateurs.
Is him the best fighter in MMA? Sorry, bro. I disagree.
Obviously you know the argument of him being too young at the age of 23 and so far untested. And he is 13-1
He was 15-0 until he fought Rua.
Also never lost a round.
And Machida is fighting in MMA since 2003!
Where is he now? Fighting Randy to save his career in UFC. And I am not making this up. Dana himself said that!
3 fights broke the spell. Now he's nowhere near the top.
Need more examples?
In 2009 most said the same thing about Lesnar! Baddest man on the planet!
Now? see if any betting line will have him any better than a 2-1 underdog for a rematch with Cain...
Good luck to you, my friend!
Woodee3384 said 03/22, 09:27 AM
The thing about Machida was he was elusive(a runner) and could counter strike very good. Jones is fast and is an attacker and not a counter striker. I was one who was never on the Machida band wagon because I knew once he fought an aggressive and technical striker like Rua, he was gonna be in trouble.
And I don't care about that never lost around crap. The guy dominates everyone he faces. I mean not even close. The only person who was hanging with him for 3 rounds was Bonnar and that guy loves to get beat up. But it was also his 2nd UFC fight and 8th overall.
To me he is the most well rounded fighter in MMA. Well a toss up between him and BJ. The guy can out strike the best striker and can out wrestle the best wrestlers. And he seems to have pretty good BJJ and has the long limbs to pull of the Subs.
Then you bring out his long limbs. I mean Shogun couldn't even get close enough to land a good leg kick and if he did he was getting tagged with punches, kicks and knees. Is he completely unstoppable? No, I mean someone could land a big shot but to be honest with you I don't see a fighter out there who can get close enough to do it.
Good Luck My Friend
Roni said 03/22, 08:15 PM
Machida was unhittable with pinpoint accuracy. You can claim NOW whatever, but matter of fact is, when he became the champ, he had never lost a round, and everyone thought he would last for a long time as champ. Sounds familiar?
You say he dominated... I ask you: who? I can only name one worthy guy! Rua.
Bader is as green as Bones. The Janitor is simply good (not elite).
So all in all, you are claiming someone with ONE credible win to be the best MMA fighter around? Sorry.
Either GSP, Silva or Aldo - pick any! They all cleared their division! Not just one win!
They are established champs! They've been tested and persevered!
GSP beat legends (BJ & Hughes)! Aldo also (Faber & Brown)!
Silva fought with a cracked rib and pulled a victory from the jaws of defeat!
They were pushed to the limit time and again and always came back winners!
His Chin untested! He may go to sleep faster than Chuck or maybe run like Lesnar.
If someone press him against the cage and do some dirty boxing? heck, we don't even know how good he's on his back!
At this point, we know he "looks great".
But there are more "unknowns" than "proven"in his game!
Woodee3384 said 03/23, 09:41 AM
As I said in my other argument, Jones is way different than Machida. Machida is good at 2 things. He can strike with great accuracy and he can kind pretty much avoid the big punches. But with Jones he can strike with the best of them obviously and he has the reach to take advantage in every fight. And his wrestling and strength are far above his opponents. I don't see anyone in the division who can hold him against the fence. He controlled where the fight was gonna take place.
I can see why you picked GSP, Anderson and Aldo they are all great champions. But Jones dominated Shogun who was a P4P ranked fighter and arguably the best LHW of all time. None of the guys you listed made the opposing fighter look that terrible. Everyone on here said Shogun was a much better striker and he stood no chance in the stand up game against Jones. We all saw how easy it was for Sonnen to take down Anderson. And Jones is much faster than Sonnen and just as good at wrestling but is more dangerous of a striker.
Jones hasn't fought all the top guys yet but, Hamill, Bader, Matyshenko, Vera, and even Bonnar are all very good fighters. Shogun said he was at 100% and this was his biggest test.
Roni said 03/23, 05:33 PM
Ok, My friend.
Let me start saying that it is a pleasure debating with you.
Now on the TD at hand, you are talking without any prof that he is indeed the top P4P in MMA at the moment.
As I stated, I disagree with you.
Bones is on the "up and coming" cathegory. He has potential. But he is not there yet.
Give him time. He can very well be the next best thing....or maybe a guy like Phil Davis will come along and beat him. And then he'll be one more on the list of "we thought he was" like Bader, Lesnar, Machida, Vera and so many others!
While I do think he makes a case for being in the P4P talks, I think it should (and will) take more fights and more challenges for him to climb above GSP, Silva or Aldo which by the way, are the top 3 guys at the newly released Sherdog???s Pound-for-Pound Top 10 list.
And Jon Jones ? he is the #7 in that list.
See for yourself:
"Hamill, Bader, Matyshenko, Vera, and Bonnar are very good fighters"
Do you really think any of them can be considered an elite MMA fighter? NO
Is Jon P4P material? Yes.
Is he at the top of that list? Not a chance.
At least not YET!
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