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  • 03/22/2011, 11:51PM ET

Is Ken Griffey Jr. a top 50 alltime player?

PatsFan21 (67-42-11) vs (KMac) Lame Sauce (49-53-7)
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K-Mac and I previously agreed to this topic based on one on his comments last week.

So, is Ken Griffey Jr. a top 50 alltime player?

I don't see how the answer can be no.

Let's start with the fact that Griffey is one of 8 players to hit 600 HR's. Griffey topped out at 630.

Griffey drove in a total of 1836 RBI's, good for 14th all time.
He's 12th in total bases.
He's 32nd in runs scored.
He's 6th in extra base hits.

This guy was one of the greatest hitters ever. His swing made hitting coaches drool. He was the "Kid", "Junior".

But Griffey's game extended way past offense. He was one of, if not the best defensive outfielder of his time. He had numerous diving catchings, catches leaping into the wall. His defense was amazing in his prime.

He won 10 straight Gold Gloves, the entire 1990's saw Griffey win a GG. He's 2nd alltime in CF assists.

Griffey also had speed. The guy could cover so much ground in the outfield. Plus, he had almost 200 career steals.

Griffey was the definition of a complete player. He could hit, run, throw, and play defense. He was complete.

He played in 12 All Star games for a reason.

MMTC

Good Luck K-Mac


Babe Ruth

Lou Gehrig

Ted Williams

Hank Aaron

Stan Musial

Joe DiMaggio

Ty Cobb

Willie Mays

Roger Hornsby

Honus Wagner

Walter Johnson

Mickey Mantle

Christy Mathewson

Jimmie Foxx

Warren Spahn

Mike Schmidt

Bob Gibson

Cy Young

Johnny Bench

Roberto Clemente

Sandy Koufax

Bob Feller

Tris Speaker

Frank Robinson

Grover Alexander

Yogi Berra

Ernie Banks

Tom Seaver

George Brett

Steve Carlton

Eddie Matthews

Brooks Robinson

Lefty Grove

Roger Clemens

Hank Greenberg

Jackie Robinson

Joe Morgan

Tony Gwynn

Greg Maddux

Mel Ott

Cal Ripken, Jr.

Nolan Ryan

Pete Rose

Rod Carew

Shoeless Joe Jackson

Jim Palmer

Barry Bonds

Nap Lajoie

Satchel Paige

Josh Gibson



This list is not necessarily in order of top 50 of all time in my mind, but doing my research these are all players I would put in front of Griffey.

Don't get me wrong, Griffey was one of the best to ever play, and easily top 50 if you take out pitchers, but pitchers included, he doesn't crack the top 50.

Good Luck.


I am not going to waste space by comparing stats of Griffey to guys your list, but Griffey is better than a lot of them. Plus, Griffey is CLEAN, unlike Bonds, Ripken, Clemens, etc. on your list.

Griffey's offensive numbers are amazing. He places in the top 10 in many important ones. He is in the top 20 in others. Notice how he's in the top 50 in everything.

Also, we need to remember that Griffey was injury plagued. There was a time that many people were convinced Griffey was going to break Hank Aaron's record, not Barry Bonds. But Griffey got hurt playing spectacular defense, because unlike most superstars, Griffey was just as good in the field as he was at the plate.

His 162 game averages are spectactular. He averaged almost 40 HR's and more than 110 RBIs per year. If you multiply that out by his 20 year career (he technically played 22, but didnt do a lot his last 2), you 800 HR's. So, you see what this guy did in his career.

Griffey has to be a top 50 all-time player. He is what you call a 5 tool player. He could hit for average and power, run, throw, and play great defense. He was complete.

MMTC


Griffey was NOT a five tool player.

His highest average? .327 in 1991. Pretty good, but never led the league in average, topped .300 only 8 times in 22 seasons, and finished his career with a .283 BA, good for #515 on the career leaderboards behind players like Randy Winn, Shea Hillenbrand, and A.J. Pierzynski.

His highest steal total? 24 in 1999. He only topped 20 twice, 1998-1999 and finished with 184 SB to go along with 69 CS in 22 seasons. His 184 SB total is good for 386 on the all time list.

Defensively? Yes, he was very good. His defensive WAR puts him at 10 all time for his career. But his TOTAL WAR puts him only at 60th all-time.

He's 5th all-time in HR's yes. He's also 14th in K's. His AB per HR is 15.6 which puts him at 25th all-time.

His offensive win % was .663 good for 164th all-time.

His fielding % as an OF is .984 good for 187th all-time.


I know I lost this throwdown, but just keep some of these stats in mind.

Also, you can't be sure that Griffey never took steroids when he was in a locker room full of steroid users.


Griffey was a 5 tool player. You're telling me that hitting .300 8 times isnt very good? If you really believe that your crazy.

Griffey was capable of 20 steals a year and probably more, he had more doubles than your average speed guys.

So, basically, here's the type of player you have:

A guy who will...
Hit about 40 homeruns.
Drive in about 115 runs.
Score 100 runs.
Steal 20 bases.
Hit about .300
Play Gold Glove caliber defense.

That is a hell of a ballplayer. That is who Ken Griffey Jr was. He could do it all. He was a 5 tool player. He was complete.

Junior could have broken the record for all time HR's if he had stayed healthy. He has magnificient stats.The Kid won 10 gold gloves in a row.
He appeared in 12 All-Star Games.
He won 7 Silver Sluggers.
He was an MVP.
He's 30th all-time in offensive WAR.
He's 10th all-time in defensive WAR.

There's nothing he couldn't do. The guy was again, complete.

There is no was Ken Griffey was not a top 50 player.

March 22, 2011  11:51 PM ET

Agreed. Best clean player during the steroid era

March 22, 2011  11:55 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

Agreed. Best clean player during the steroid era

How do you know he was clean?

March 22, 2011  11:56 PM ET
QUOTE(#2):

How do you know he was clean?

Good point. But he hasn't been accused yet. That's the only reason I know. Honestly, there's no one that would surprise me if they came out and said they were on steroids

March 23, 2011  12:05 AM ET

Yes.

March 23, 2011  12:08 AM ET

No.

















































































Kidding.

March 23, 2011  12:17 AM ET
QUOTE(#3):

Good point. But he hasn't been accused yet. That's the only reason I know. Honestly, there's no one that would surprise me if they came out and said they were on steroids

Ichiro would surprise me.

March 23, 2011  12:18 AM ET
QUOTE(#5):

No.Kidding.

Gonets!
How have the hunting trips been lately?

March 23, 2011  12:21 AM ET
QUOTE(#5):

No.Kidding.

Flip-flopper

March 23, 2011  12:36 AM ET

Not only is he top 50, you could make a case that he's top 10.

March 23, 2011  12:38 AM ET
QUOTE(#9):

Not only is he top 50, you could make a case that he's top 10.

Maybe 15-20

March 23, 2011  01:03 AM ET
QUOTE(#9):

Not only is he top 50, you could make a case that he's top 10.

You could also make a case to putting him the top 60-75 zone. We'll see what Kody's reasons are. I'd put him around 25th (off the top of my head) - but it also depends how many pitchers are getting spots on these lists.

March 23, 2011  01:04 AM ET
QUOTE(#10):

Maybe 15-20

Ha. Didn't see that. We split the difference.

March 23, 2011  01:17 AM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Ichiro would surprise me.

i think ichiro and griffey are both clean

March 23, 2011  01:47 AM ET

Griff is clean. He had no reason not to be. He didn't have a dramatic spike in size or numbers after the 1998 season, which so many did.

But you never know. Ripken used. Just throwing that out there.

But back to the topic, he is absolutely top 50. Top 20, for sure.(excluding pitchers. It's comparing apples to bananas)

March 23, 2011  02:31 AM ET

Ill probably get to this tomorrow sometime.

March 23, 2011  02:34 AM ET

Would like to see list of 49 players before Jr.

March 23, 2011  06:12 AM ET

Brought the lumber and the leather.....

March 23, 2011  06:16 AM ET
QUOTE(#17):

Would like to see list of 49 players before Jr.

Agreed.....

March 23, 2011  07:06 AM ET
QUOTE(#17):

Would like to see list of 49 players before Jr.

Gettin it.

 
March 23, 2011  07:28 AM ET

Hank Greenberg, Tris Speaker, Roger Clemens, and Bonds over Griffey?!

NO WAY

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