- 04/13/2011, 10:41PM ET
fat28will said 04/13, 10:41 PM
To me it is Shaq. Shaq has had a better career, he's scored 28,596 in his career, more than
Kobe and for his career averaged a double-double with 23.7 ppg and 10.9 rpg. In the
playoffs he averaged 24.5 ppg and 11.7 rpg and also he has 4 rings and 3 Finals MVP. He
also has the ROY award which Kobe does not have. From 1992 to 2008, Shaq was always
a force to reckoned with. He could score, defend, and was good teammate to have. Also to
teams the only way to defend Shaq was to Hack-a-Shaq were the team would foul shaq
and get the ball back due to his poor foul shooting. Even though Kobe is the best in the
game right now he was always in Shaq shadow until 08 the yr he made to the Finals.
fvkasm2x said 04/13, 11:08 PM
No, it's Kobe.
1. He has been a Laker his entire career and will retire a Laker. One of the biggest knocks on Michael is that he came back a Wizard. It was obviously a mixture of being rusty and old... but the main thing was MJ in a Washington uniform.
Shaq is nothing but a hired gun. A traveling salesman. That hurts your legacy. Look how people laughed at Karl Malone and The Glove when they both went to LA to try and win a ring. It just seemed strange and desperate.
Yes Shaq has won in Miami, but people don't remember him as a Heat player like they do a Laker.
2. Kobe has 5 rings and counting. Shaq has 4.
3. Kobe has multiple facets to his game. He can drive and dunk, he can pass, he can hit the 3, he is clutch, he has great hands, etc...
Shaq is a big guy that can overpower small players.
Seems like Kobe is simply a better basketball player.
4. Scoring. Shaq only has 700 more career points than Kobe. He's also played 4 more years than Kobe. By the All Star game next year, Kobe will have passed Shaq.
fat28will said 04/14, 05:48 PM
1. if Jerry West never tricked the Grizzles in trading Pau Gasol to LA then Kobe may have been playing with someone else right now.
2. to me I always say Kobe has 2 rings cus Shaq HAND CRAFTED those 3 rings for Kobe while carrying those 3 Finals MVP's in his other hand.
3. Shaq also has many facets to his game for a big man. He can drive and dunk or layup, he could pass the ball to the open man, he could get you boards and he was presence in the paint, etc.
4. Kobe has also taken 2,000 more shots then Shaq but still is behind him in points. smh
5. Also in the stat line Shaq in his career has averaged 2.5 assist to Kobe's 4.7. Man if i was Kobe i would have been averaging a Dub-Dub or at least my career apg would be at 6 or 7, but then again Kobe was a ball hog so what ya gonna do? If he could pass like you said why didn't he?
fvkasm2x said 04/14, 06:21 PM
Rebuttal to your 5 points:
1. I irrelevant and brings nothing to this debate.
2. Every star needs help. MJ needed Pippen. I suppose in your eyes Shaq won that Championship in Miami and Wade had nothing to do with it? What about Boston, San Antonio, etc...
Does Duncan play by himself? Does Pierce not play with Allen, Garnett and others?
3. Shaq has no facets other than stand in the paint and dunk. He doesn't have a jump shot. He can't shoot free throws.
4. Shaq has high percentage shots. His longest shot is a 7 footer. Kobe takes them as the shot clock expires. He hits from half court. He drains hundreds of threes a year. When you take harder shots, you are bound to need more of them to score as many points as dunks brings.
5. Shaq is double teamed in the paint. He then kicks it out to a teammate for an open shot. I'd hope he would actually have more assists than 2.5... since he was double teamed dozens of times a game in his prime.
After this year Kobe will have had 9 Top 5 finishes in MVP voting
Shaq only has 8
Kobe has more award accolades and more rings. He'll have more points as of next year.
fat28will said 04/15, 02:37 PM
Ard, First I put in the 1st point becuase you talked about Shaq being a traveling star and I only wanted to remind you that Kobe would have been playing with another team right now if Gasol never came to the Lakers
2. When you say every star needs help you are right but hope you know that from 99 to 04, that Shaq was Batman and Kobe was Robin. Bring up Duncan and Pierce was poor choices. Both players have equally teammates that play their roles and slide the weight when need. when it was Shaq and Kobe, Shaq is was pulling more weight and it shows with his 3 Finals MVPs. If Kobe had played at Shaq's level then he would have had 1 of those MVPs but he did not. Tony Paker has one Finals MVP from the 4 runs the Spurs had and Boston has only been to 1 championship since the 80's so you really cant use them.
3. You are almost right. Shaq cant hit free throws. Shaq backs down his man THEN dunks
4. Shaq is a C, do you expect him to hit 3 pointers? Centers Now aren't as big so they work on their jumpers. Shaq was to big for that. Also you say Kobe has finished in the Top Five in MVP voting 9x to Shaq's 8 but guess what? THEY STILL HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT, 1
5.Kobe does the same
fvkasm2x said 04/15, 03:09 PM
How about these three points to close out:
1. Shaq has never won a championship without a Hall of Fame player.
Kobe will be in. Wade will be in. Even if the Celtics win this year, multiple players will be in.
Kobe has done it twice already. As good as Pau Gasol is, he isn't going into the Hall. Neither will Odom. They are great, versatile players... but they aren't elite superstars.
2. Shaq got the vast majority of his "talents" through biological genes. Most of his dominance came from his size. You don't practice being 7 feet tall. You don't hone the craft of being 300 lbs.
Kobe has done more with less. He's average height (for a baller) and average build. He is relentless with his work ethic. Hour upon hour he spent time in the gym working on his shot. His dribbling. His skills.
Shaq couldn't be bothered to try and shoot 70% from the line. Sure he's had "professional" help to try and coach his foul shooting, but at the end of the day he was still known as one of the worst of all time.
3. Kobe works hard on defense. His All Defensive team selection 5 years straight proves it.
Shaq has never worked as hard at his craft.
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