- 06/13/2011, 06:29PM ET
OM: 2010 Champs said 06/13, 06:29 PM
Rivalry- competition for superiority in the same field.
Since 1890, the Giants and Dodgers have played over 2,100 times. The series record? Giants are ahead 1094-1078-17. In over 120 years of competition this series is separated by only 16 games. World Series championships you ask? 6 apiece. That runs parallel with the definition of rivalry.
Red Sox-Yanks on the other hand? They don't quite meet the same standard when in comes to the definition of "rivalry". There first meeting was in 1901. The series record? Yankees winning, 1127-950-14. This series is separated by over 175 games. WS Championships? 26-7, Yanks.
Can the Red Sox be blamed for not having 20-some WS titles? Of course not. But the point is, nobody rivals the Yankees.
Aside from a single trade, this rivalry doesn???t have the same meat that Dodgers/Giants has supplied for more than 120 years. From start to finish, this rivalry has been intense and COMPETITIVE.
From the days of Mathewson and Grimes, to Mays and Koufax, to Clark and Hershiser, to Lincecum and Kemp, this rivalry has kept fans on their heels for over a century. Even a re-location, couldn???t bring the best rivalry in baseball to it???s knees.
fvkasm2x said 06/13, 07:47 PM
Congratulations on picking the Giants, you'll be honored in Yoda's award for "Homer of the Year." In reality though, it has to be the Sox & Yankees for several reasons:
1) Competition for playoffs. Here is breakdown of the AL pennants & playoff appearances won by the teams:
First place: Yankees- 40 pennants and 40 playoff berths
3rd place : Sox- 12 pennants and 20 berths.
That's a total of 112 notable team achievements not counting World Series wins.
Yes the gap is large, but they are 1st and 3rd in the entire AL, which shows the success both clubs have had.
NOW let me nip your counter argument in the bud.
The Giants/Dodgers are indeed 1st and 2nd in terms of the same feat for the NL.
HOWEVER, they have 92 of those same achievements, many of them while the teams were Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants.
2) People from Boston genuinely hate New Yawkers to the core & vice versa. It isn't just a rivalry, it's a flat out hatred. The sheer passion of these fans/teams is second to none.
Yes the competitive balance between teams might be closer historically between the Giants/Dodgers, but there isn't the same animosity.
OM: 2010 Champs said 06/13, 07:59 PM
Does it matter where they've accomplished these feats? The rivalry doesn't start or end in San Fran/LA.
In fact, that brings me to my next point. In 1954, the Dodgers moved to LA. They then convinced the Giants to move to San Francisco in order to continue the rivalry. Even a switch to the other side of the nation couldn't stop this rivalry.
You wanna talk about tallying up "accomplishments"? How about the Giants with their MLB leading 23 hall of famers, 3 more than the Yanks. And the Dodgers with 16, 4 more than the Red Sox.
You speak of hatred between the cities. Do murdering opposing teams fans not count as hatred between the cities? I'm not saying it's right or condemning it, but I believe that is proof enough that this "hatred" runs deeper than just the teams.
Do you think Juan Marichal didn't "hate" the Dodgers when he took a bat to Johny Roseboro's head?
It's laughable to say the animosity between Dodgers/Giants doesn't match Yanks/Sox. Numerous players throughout history have refused to play for the other. The list includes Jackie Robinson, Juan Marichal, and Willie Mays just to name a few. Those that do, are met with a 95 MPH heater. Just ask Juan Uribe.
fvkasm2x said 06/13, 08:16 PM
"They then convinced the Giants to move to San Francisco in order to continue the rivalry."
Ohhh so the move didn't have anything to do with the crumbling stadium at Polo Grounds? It had nothing to do with San Fran mayor George Christopher asking for relocation, in his attempt to "one up" the city of LA?
From the way you tell the tale, the Giants & Dodgers brass got together over a beer and said "Hey, lets up and move cities so we can continue our fabled rivalry."
I think not.
Back to my points:
1) Pedro vs Zimmer
An instant classic, right up there with Rocky vs Drago and Rocky vs Apollo
2) Tech vs A-Rod
Look, if you got the girly-man known as A-Roid to fight, it has to be worth it. He only puts down his purse in order to cash his paycheck.
3) Arguably the worst trade in sports history?
The Sox had already won 5 World Series & then they sold Babe Ruth for a bag of balls & a wooden nickel. That trade coincided with the Sox demise to obscurity & the rise of the Yankees.
4) I live in Vancouver, BC and I still get Yankees/Sox games on TV. Not the case for Giants/Dodgers.
OM: 2010 Champs said 06/13, 10:23 PM
All of your numbered points are valid, except for #4. East Coast Bias media should not be a reason for one rivalry being better than the other.
With all due respect to #2, that's nothing compared to what Juan Marichal did to John Roseboro. No video for it, but beating a guy over the head with a bat and charging the mound with it, beats anything Tek and A-Rod did.
Or Reggie Smith jumping into the crowd at Candlestick to fight a fan that was taunting him? He did that in 2 seperate years. Never seen that in Sox/Yanks.
But back to baseball. Who could forget the "shot heard round the world", when Bobby Thomson hit a HR in the bottom of the 9th to send the Giants to World Series over the Dodgers. Arguably the most historic moment in baseball.
In 1965, 66, and 71, the Dodgers and Giants came down to the final game of the season to determine who would advance to the World Series. Twice the Dodgers came away victorious, once the Giants.
In the alltime series the Giants have averaged 4.34 runs per game. Dodgers: 4.31 rpg
Both teams have have exactly 345 1-run wins
The alltime season series record is 52-51-18, in favor of the Giants
THAT, defines rivalry.
fvkasm2x said 06/14, 05:32 PM
Forbes rank for team value:
NY = 1
Boston = 3
They are the the cream of the crop in terms of popularity, revenue, etc...
Therefore, their rivalry is more publicized and more recognized. Casual fans can name almost the entire starting lineup for both teams in a given year.
That makes the rivalry better, because more people know about it.
When you think of the all time rivalries and great battles, you think:
Further down that list are your two teams.
Another aspect of rivalries is game importance and/or winning.
The Dodgers haven't won a World Series since 1988.
Last year was the Giants' first Series win since moving to California.
They don't play meaningful games against each other often.
NY and Boston play against each other all the time in the AL East and they almost always meet up in the Post season. Remember the 3-0 lead that went by by? Legendary. Arguably the best comeback in sports history... and it was Sox/Yankees.
The Yankees or Sox have made the World Series 9 times combined since 1995. They play on a bigger scale. The Dogers and Giants? Just once.
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