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  • 06/13/2011, 06:29PM ET

Better Rivalry: Dodgers/Giants vs Yankees/Red Sox

OM: 2010 Champs (128-42-16) vs fvkasm2x (193-58-12)
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Rivalry- competition for superiority in the same field.

Since 1890, the Giants and Dodgers have played over 2,100 times. The series record? Giants are ahead 1094-1078-17. In over 120 years of competition this series is separated by only 16 games. World Series championships you ask? 6 apiece. That runs parallel with the definition of rivalry.

Red Sox-Yanks on the other hand? They don't quite meet the same standard when in comes to the definition of "rivalry". There first meeting was in 1901. The series record? Yankees winning, 1127-950-14. This series is separated by over 175 games. WS Championships? 26-7, Yanks.

Can the Red Sox be blamed for not having 20-some WS titles? Of course not. But the point is, nobody rivals the Yankees.

Aside from a single trade, this rivalry doesn???t have the same meat that Dodgers/Giants has supplied for more than 120 years. From start to finish, this rivalry has been intense and COMPETITIVE.

From the days of Mathewson and Grimes, to Mays and Koufax, to Clark and Hershiser, to Lincecum and Kemp, this rivalry has kept fans on their heels for over a century. Even a re-location, couldn???t bring the best rivalry in baseball to it???s knees.


Congratulations on picking the Giants, you'll be honored in Yoda's award for "Homer of the Year." In reality though, it has to be the Sox & Yankees for several reasons:

1) Competition for playoffs. Here is breakdown of the AL pennants & playoff appearances won by the teams:

First place: Yankees- 40 pennants and 40 playoff berths
3rd place : Sox- 12 pennants and 20 berths.

That's a total of 112 notable team achievements not counting World Series wins.

Yes the gap is large, but they are 1st and 3rd in the entire AL, which shows the success both clubs have had.

NOW let me nip your counter argument in the bud.

The Giants/Dodgers are indeed 1st and 2nd in terms of the same feat for the NL.

HOWEVER, they have 92 of those same achievements, many of them while the teams were Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants.

2) People from Boston genuinely hate New Yawkers to the core & vice versa. It isn't just a rivalry, it's a flat out hatred. The sheer passion of these fans/teams is second to none.

Yes the competitive balance between teams might be closer historically between the Giants/Dodgers, but there isn't the same animosity.

MTC


Does it matter where they've accomplished these feats? The rivalry doesn't start or end in San Fran/LA.

In fact, that brings me to my next point. In 1954, the Dodgers moved to LA. They then convinced the Giants to move to San Francisco in order to continue the rivalry. Even a switch to the other side of the nation couldn't stop this rivalry.

You wanna talk about tallying up "accomplishments"? How about the Giants with their MLB leading 23 hall of famers, 3 more than the Yanks. And the Dodgers with 16, 4 more than the Red Sox.

You speak of hatred between the cities. Do murdering opposing teams fans not count as hatred between the cities? I'm not saying it's right or condemning it, but I believe that is proof enough that this "hatred" runs deeper than just the teams.

Do you think Juan Marichal didn't "hate" the Dodgers when he took a bat to Johny Roseboro's head?

It's laughable to say the animosity between Dodgers/Giants doesn't match Yanks/Sox. Numerous players throughout history have refused to play for the other. The list includes Jackie Robinson, Juan Marichal, and Willie Mays just to name a few. Those that do, are met with a 95 MPH heater. Just ask Juan Uribe.


"They then convinced the Giants to move to San Francisco in order to continue the rivalry."

Ohhh so the move didn't have anything to do with the crumbling stadium at Polo Grounds? It had nothing to do with San Fran mayor George Christopher asking for relocation, in his attempt to "one up" the city of LA?

From the way you tell the tale, the Giants & Dodgers brass got together over a beer and said "Hey, lets up and move cities so we can continue our fabled rivalry."

I think not.

Back to my points:

1) Pedro vs Zimmer

An instant classic, right up there with Rocky vs Drago and Rocky vs Apollo

2) Tech vs A-Rod

Look, if you got the girly-man known as A-Roid to fight, it has to be worth it. He only puts down his purse in order to cash his paycheck.



3) Arguably the worst trade in sports history?

The Sox had already won 5 World Series & then they sold Babe Ruth for a bag of balls & a wooden nickel. That trade coincided with the Sox demise to obscurity & the rise of the Yankees.

4) I live in Vancouver, BC and I still get Yankees/Sox games on TV. Not the case for Giants/Dodgers.


All of your numbered points are valid, except for #4. East Coast Bias media should not be a reason for one rivalry being better than the other.

With all due respect to #2, that's nothing compared to what Juan Marichal did to John Roseboro. No video for it, but beating a guy over the head with a bat and charging the mound with it, beats anything Tek and A-Rod did.

Or Reggie Smith jumping into the crowd at Candlestick to fight a fan that was taunting him? He did that in 2 seperate years. Never seen that in Sox/Yanks.

But back to baseball. Who could forget the "shot heard round the world", when Bobby Thomson hit a HR in the bottom of the 9th to send the Giants to World Series over the Dodgers. Arguably the most historic moment in baseball.

In 1965, 66, and 71, the Dodgers and Giants came down to the final game of the season to determine who would advance to the World Series. Twice the Dodgers came away victorious, once the Giants.

In the alltime series the Giants have averaged 4.34 runs per game. Dodgers: 4.31 rpg

Both teams have have exactly 345 1-run wins

The alltime season series record is 52-51-18, in favor of the Giants

THAT, defines rivalry.


Forbes rank for team value:

NY = 1
Boston = 3

They are the the cream of the crop in terms of popularity, revenue, etc...
Therefore, their rivalry is more publicized and more recognized. Casual fans can name almost the entire starting lineup for both teams in a given year.

That makes the rivalry better, because more people know about it.

When you think of the all time rivalries and great battles, you think:

Celtics/Lakers
Habs/Bruins
Yankees/Sox
Packers/Bears

Further down that list are your two teams.

Another aspect of rivalries is game importance and/or winning.

The Dodgers haven't won a World Series since 1988.
Last year was the Giants' first Series win since moving to California.

They don't play meaningful games against each other often.

NY and Boston play against each other all the time in the AL East and they almost always meet up in the Post season. Remember the 3-0 lead that went by by? Legendary. Arguably the best comeback in sports history... and it was Sox/Yankees.

The Yankees or Sox have made the World Series 9 times combined since 1995. They play on a bigger scale. The Dogers and Giants? Just once.

June 13, 2011  06:29 PM ET

Good luck, RSP. I'm excited for this.

June 13, 2011  06:32 PM ET

27-7, Yanks, in the WS title department.

June 13, 2011  06:33 PM ET

Can the Red Sox be blamed for not having 20-some WS titles? Of course not. But the point is, nobody rivals the Yankees.



Of course they can. They were the ones who sucked for 90 years. No one made them that way. The blame lies solely with the Red Sox.

June 13, 2011  06:35 PM ET
QUOTE(#2):

27-7, Yanks, in the WS title department.

Apologies. But it only furthers the argument.

June 13, 2011  06:35 PM ET

Doesn't have the same meat?
Babe
Buckey (The Boston Globe headline the next day Destiny 5 Red Sox 4)
Boone
The only 0-3 comeback in baseball playoff history
The Boston Massacre of 1978
The bench clearing brawls in the 70's
The Fisk vs Munson agruments
Boggs riding on the back of a horse at Yankee Stadium
The Ted Willams vs Joe Dimaggio debate

June 13, 2011  06:36 PM ET

Lets keep arguments to a minimum though until RSP posts his own. He doesn't need anymore ammunition than he already should have given the fact that about 95% of the country already considers yanks/sox to be the best.

June 13, 2011  06:36 PM ET
QUOTE(#5):

Doesn't have the same meat?BabeBuckey (The Boston Globe headline the next day Destiny 5 Red Sox 4)BooneThe only 0-3 comeback in baseball playoff historyThe Boston Massacre of 1978The bench clearing brawls in the 70'sThe Fisk vs Munson agrumentsBoggs riding on the back of a horse at Yankee StadiumThe Ted Willams vs Joe Dimaggio debate

Please, keep these types of comments to a minimum until RSP posts.

June 13, 2011  06:37 PM ET
QUOTE(#5):

Doesn't have the same meat?BabeBuckey (The Boston Globe headline the next day Destiny 5 Red Sox 4)BooneThe only 0-3 comeback in baseball playoff historyThe Boston Massacre of 1978The bench clearing brawls in the 70'sThe Fisk vs Munson agrumentsBoggs riding on the back of a horse at Yankee StadiumThe Ted Willams vs Joe Dimaggio debate

And you act as if Dodgers/Giants doesn't have similar stories and instances. I however, will wait for my next argument to present those.

June 13, 2011  06:38 PM ET
QUOTE(#7):

Please, keep these types of comments to a minimum until RSP posts.

I've seen RSP post, he needs all the help he can get.

June 13, 2011  06:38 PM ET
QUOTE(#4):

Apologies. But it only furthers the argument.

True. But you can't shortchange us ;)

And it would have been 28 if we hadn't lost to Texas in the LCS :)

Comment #11 has been removed
June 13, 2011  06:39 PM ET
QUOTE(#9):

I've seen RSP post, he needs all the help he can get.

......

June 13, 2011  06:40 PM ET
QUOTE(#10):

True. But you can't shortchange us ;)And it would have been 28 if we hadn't lost to Texas in the LCS :)

Ooooohhhhh... you sure do know how to press people's buttons haha.

June 13, 2011  06:40 PM ET
QUOTE(#9):

I've seen RSP post, he needs all the help he can get.

Even if that is so, I'd greatly appreciate it.

June 13, 2011  06:44 PM ET
QUOTE(#8):

And you act as if Dodgers/Giants doesn't have similar stories and instances. I however, will wait for my next argument to present those.

Theo flying to Arizona the day before Thanksiving to take Shilling from under the Yanks noses.
Cashman doing the same to Theo to get Contreras even though the Sox rented every room at the hotel trying to thwart them causing the Sox brass to name them the Evil Empire.
THe Sox biding 50 mil just to talk to Dice K and get him over the Yanks.
The Yanks getting Igawa to ensure they also got a Jap pitcher too
The Yanks claiming no interest and at the last minutes outbiding the Sox for Texeira.
Pedro hitting Yankees with the frequency of a cheap ham radio
Pedro throwing Zim to the ground.
Joba throwing at Youk
Varitek and A Rod fighting.

June 13, 2011  06:45 PM ET
QUOTE(#14):

Even if that is so, I'd greatly appreciate it.

In that case please ignore post 15.

June 13, 2011  06:47 PM ET
QUOTE(#15):

Theo flying to Arizona the day before Thanksiving to take Shilling from under the Yanks noses.Cashman doing the same to Theo to get Contreras even though the Sox rented every room at the hotel trying to thwart them causing the Sox brass to name them the Evil Empire.THe Sox biding 50 mil just to talk to Dice K and get him over the Yanks.The Yanks getting Igawa to ensure they also got a Jap pitcher tooThe Yanks claiming no interest and at the last minutes outbiding the Sox for Texeira. Pedro hitting Yankees with the frequency of a cheap ham radioPedro throwing Zim to the ground. Joba throwing at YoukVaritek and A Rod fighting.

C'mon man this is just ridiculous. YOu have essentially given my opponent his argument.

From somebody with over 40,000 posts, I'd expect better.

June 13, 2011  06:51 PM ET
QUOTE(#17):

C'mon man this is just ridiculous. YOu have essentially given my opponent his argument.From somebody with over 40,000 posts, I'd expect better.

Are you one of these guys that takes TD too seriously? I thought the whole idea was to get a discussion going. And from what I've read RSP is about 15 so would winning the TD really have been much of an accomplishment?

June 13, 2011  06:51 PM ET
QUOTE:

Talk to Mrs Cliff Lee. She no longer expects much from Yankee fans...

Well, I've never expected much from Yankee fans.

But I've always thought highly of Justin Cider.

 
June 13, 2011  06:51 PM ET
QUOTE:

Talk to Mrs Cliff Lee. She no longer expects much from Yankee fans...

Mrs Lee needs to toughen up. Just wait until a Philly fans pukes all over one of her kids.

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