- 06/18/2011, 12:42PM ET
NEW NAME said 06/18, 12:42 PM
FFTI Topic: What are the 3 most historically dangerous motor vehicle races still running?
In no particular order
The Dakar Rally - 49 racers have been killed in Dakar's 32-year history. A grueling race once ran in the desolate, lawless deserts of North Africa and since 2009 in the equally bleak, barren wastelands of South America. Drivers not only deal with competing racers, but must make it through desert sands, dangerous mountain passes, and even the occasional daylight robbery and random shooting
The 24hrs of Le Mans - A high speed endurance race started in 1923. There have been 129 deaths here, including a 1955 accident where a driver crashed his car into the stands and killed 83 spectators
The Isle of Man Tourist Trophy - Originally built for bicycles, it's the oldest motorcycle racing circuit still in use, through narrow, twisting streets flanked by stone walls and sometimes buildings. It's claimed 231 lives. In 2011, 3 competitors & 4 non-competitors wer killed, and total of 32 seriously injured in accidents that police describes as resembling a "war zone". Police also called the # of deaths "usual" for the TT period.
(KMac) Lame Sauce said 06/18, 07:14 PM
Thanks for agreeing to start this one over for me and good luck Kagan.
I only have 1 change and it's a big one.
My choice kills more people than all three of yours combined. Between the years of 2001-2006 it claimed the lives of 804 people. And that was just in the United States.
My choice? Street Racing
I'd like to take out the 24 Hours of Le Mans and add in Street Racing.
Street racing is huge worldwide, it has many more participants, many more spectators, and a helluva lot more deaths.
Let's look at some facts...
Between 2001-2006 it killed 188 people in California alone. Texas had 128.
Between the year 2005-2006 street racing deaths rose 35%. (That was the year that Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift came out)
Now there are plenty of tracks for people to race at, but they hardly ever use them. Their track? The world. Anywhere and everywhere there's an open road. That's where most of the deaths occur. From an old Mustang Boss 429 to a riced up Nissan Skyline, they race them all.
The deaths at Le Mans PALE in comparison with street racing. Le Mans has also been made safer year by year, while street racing has not.
NEW NAME said 06/19, 12:37 PM
True, Le Mans has been made safer year by year, but it is still a historical race. It qualifies for this debate
Andre Lagache and Rene Leonard won the first 24 in 1923. Marcel Fassler, Andre Lotterer & Benoit Treluyer won the 2011 race. That is history
The Cannonball Run or Gumball Rally would be examples of historical street races, but you didn't choose one of them, you just threw a big, general blanket over everything
Street racing? Many people have died street racing but millions more have died on the streets merely going about their own business. Does "going about your own business" qualify for this debate? If so, historicallythen, by your criteria, your choice isn't even the most dangerous choice available to you. I would venture to say more people have died driving to Grandma's house than "street racing"
Who won the first street race? Who won the last? Want to look that up on Wikipedia? I'm waiting...
Your race isn't definable. The guy in the Honda next to me on the freeway seemed like he thought he could go faster than me. I beat him to the offramp. Am I a street racer?
My choice is a specific RACE. Yours is nothing but a DMV statistic
(KMac) Lame Sauce said 06/20, 07:14 AM
Definition of Auto Racing? The racing of cars for competition and/or money.
What is street racing? The racing of cars for competition and/or money.
So I'm pretty sure that street racing does fall under the necessary categories for this TD. Oh, you wanted historical?
How bout this. Street racing has been around since the invention of the automobile. Hell, people would race their horses down the street for money before cars were invented. So while Le Mans may have a richer, more famous, and more well known history, street racing has been around longer.
To clarify, I'm not talking about beating the guy next to you to the next offramp. I'm talking about legit street racing. The kind where large groups of people gather, and thousands of dollars and cars are wagered on races. You may think it's just a cliche, "Fast and Furious" crap, but it's not.
I live in Japan and see it all the time on the expressways, and you know what? People make a lot of money doing it. The good ones can make over a couple hundred grand every year.
While street racing may not be your prototypical auto race, it still falls under the necessary categories and should be considered.
NEW NAME said 06/20, 11:04 AM
There were plenty of choices for you to take here, the Macau GP, the Baja 1000, the Indy 500
Instead you chose "Every unsanctioned auto race since the invention of the automobile"
That's like me choosing "Every Stock car race since the formation of NASCAR" or "Every Formula 1 race ever"
Except I could present actual facts, records, and historical data to back up my claim
"Street racing has been around since the invention of the automobile"
Can you prove it? We know it happened, because it must have, but there is no record of the first street race, or the first winner
That makes it part of folklore. History separates actual events from myth and fiction
"people would race their horses down the street for money before cars were invented"
Horse racing is not our topic
"I'm talking about legit street racing"
Legit street racing? A legitimate illegal activity? Oxymoron much?
The 24 Hrs of Le Mans is the world's oldest sports car endurance race. Since the winner is who completes the most laps, it rewards high speeds over the savvy of negotiating turns, which invariably has led to many horrific accidents
And it's part of History
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