Throwdowns > Forfeited

Grue said 06/20, 09:27 AM
Since Mr. Jolly is a comic book fan and [A] suggested a "change the past" topic, we thought it would be fun to play Throwdown Super Hero and save one amateur, active or retired athlete who died.

This was one of the toughest TD topic decisions I've faced. How do you counter-argument against deceased legends? How do you value one life over another?

Everything happens for a reason. Even painful and tragic losses can have unexpected benefits like Jim Valvano's V Foundation raising millions. If you take away a death of an iconic figure then you take away the positives that people perform in their memory.

But sometimes, that reason for death is very hard to see.

This story was supposed to have an happy ending. An athlete makes the ultimate sacrifice, does all of the right things, for all of the right reasons. Yet he is rewarded for his service by paying the ultimate price from friendly fire and military cover-ups.

Arizona Cardinal and Army Ranger CPL Pat Tillman would have been the perfect hero and spokesman for the Army and NFL upon his return from service.



November 6, 1976 ??? April 22, 2004

Grue said 06/21, 09:26 AM
Always a pleasure since we think alike but see differently, Mr. Jolly.
I knew you would pick Clemtene; he was my second choice.

It is purly ethos and pathos to value the sacrifice of these men. I spent a night mulling them over and only one stuck with me in the morning.

Motivation for Sacrifice
Pat Tillman gave up millions of dollars and an NFL career to fight the terrorists that organized the September 11 attacks. He wanted to strike back at Bin Laden. It may be ethno-centric, but my heart leaned towards a sacrifice to defend the USA.

Roberto Clemente traveled during the offseason to Nicaragua to help earthquake victims. Clemente left to perform a humaitarian task but had every intention of returning to baseball.

Clemente's cause was noble, but the motivation for action was stronger for Tillman.

Facing Death in the - umm - Face
You'll probably cite the Fog of War. A soldier faces those risks. A soldier is trained to deliver death and accept it. While a passenger on a plane may fear the tragedy, it is unexpected.

I felt more injustice here that Tillman was killed by his own countrymen and not an accident.

I want to say much more!

Grue said 06/22, 10:05 AM
You wax poetically about 3 wishes but it's not relevant.

We give one man a 2nd chance. We can't imagine all probabilities. Black men have a shorter life expectancy and higher rate of heart disease than whites. Clemente was 38, Tillman was 27. Planes have a lower rate of accidents. Cars have better safety features and traffic fatalities/miles are lower in 2009 than 1954. We can't debate the "what ifs" of war and life.

3% of 200k troops have died in Iraq/Afg. As of 2009, only 0.78% of those deaths were by "Friendly" fire.

The Army contrived a heroic story to cover for the death of one of the highest-profile enlisted men in the Army; the war's poster child. Tillman's family has spent the years since 2004 attacking the politcal cover-up and inconsistencies in the Pentagon. Their lives have been a nightmare in search of the truth.

Tillman could have represented the NFL, the Army, the fight against Terrorism. He could have raised millions for charities by speaking, fund raising, and books. He could have inspired others to serve our country. So much potential wasted.

A few soldiers in Afghanistan didn't read that script. I'd rewrite it.

Great TD Jolly!