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  • 08/30/2011, 04:48PM ET

It should not be M Verlander P.....

OlderthanDirt (88-37-13) vs GI_jim_bob (1-1-1)
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Okay, this should draw a lot of debate. I have stated my position on a couple of threads and will put my neck on the chopping block so you guys can all take a whack at it ...[/b]BUT[/b]...

Justin Verlander should NOT win the AL MVP this year.

First off , his team has not won anything yet. It is still debatable as to whether or not the Tigers will win their division. And IF they do, he can only pitch once, maybe twice if it goes 5 games, in the divisional playoffs and therefore the chances of them advancing is minimal at best.

And while he is pitching in the post season, again only once probably, there is a very good chance that the eventual MVP of the league will bat multiple times, have a good series and most likely advance to the WS. (will get into who I think this will be 2nd or 3rd, if need be)

So while, Justin "Deservingly So" Verlander sews up the AL Cy Young award; let's please stop all this nonsense of awarding the MVP to him already.

The body of work by several position players still out weighs anything he has accomplished to this point.

Okay FN, you can now begin my slow death by hate mail and comments. But there it is. JV is not your AL MVP.


Well im willing to take the lost here, but I still think people are missing the point of this award.
The Most valuable player award is given to the player that has done most to put their team in a position to win.

That is Justin Verlander, Day in and day out performs every other pitcher on the field and has put his team into a position to win there division.

You say that there are others out there that have done more for there team.
Who would you pick Jose Bautista his team is playing .500 ball and no hope of going anywhere. How much has he really done for his team?

Curtis Granderson? He on the Team with A-rod, Cono, and Teixeira is Granderson really the main reason why there line up is good? I think not.

Or how about Adrian Gonzalez, Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia? There all great players having great season but there all on the Red sox how can u really justify that any of them have done so much more for there team the the other.

Were as Verlander is the only good pitcher on his team the next best pitcher on the Tigers is Max Scherzer who is pitching a 4.52 ERA and he???s there next best pitcher!
So I cant see how you don???t??? vote for Verlander for MVP this year.


No, I don't think people are missing the point. In fact, I think you have with your 2nd paragraph. Justin DOES NOT perform "day in and day out". THAT MY FRIEND is the whole point I was making.

An on the field every day player has more "Value" than a pitcher that takes the hill every 4th or 5th game. I personally Would vote for either A-Gone or Granderson over Verlander for MVP. I understand the whole, "look at the supporting cast" argument you make for them but the same is true for JV as well. Without defense and offense his pitching effort could go by the way side. You CANNOT dismiss the efforts and body of work by the "every day player" just because they are on a good team.

How about fielding? Does it come into play? How about A-Gone's .997 fielding %? Are you kidding? 1B and only 3 errors in over 1100 chances.

Then add his batting. Leads the league in hits, BA, total bases and has an OPS+ of 157 for the year. He will more than likely score over 100 runs ( has 90 so far) . He already has over 100+ RBIs. Every single qualification you need to look for in the LEAGUE MVP is standing right there at first base for the Sox.

I have more. Will finish in 3rd. GL


Ok im going to show how much impacted Justin Verlander has in a week compared to ???A-Gone???.

A.G has a batting avg of .342 now lets say he plays every game for a week he averages 4 at bats a game now that would mean he gets 28 at bats per week that would mean he should get about 9.5 hits a week and lets say he gets 7 RBIs off those hits that a run a game one run doesn???t win a whole lot of games.

J.V plays on average every 5th game or twice a week. He sees on average 28 batters a game, now 28 batters twice a week is 56 batters (that???s double the amount of time A.G sees a pitcher in a week.) J.V only allows his opponents a batting avg of .190 that would translate to about 5 per game and that???s not even a hit an inning and with J.V only giving up homeruns about 2% of the time he not going to be giving up a whole lot of runs. So if J.V does give up runs he only avg about 2 runs a game so if he can hold teams to 2 runs or less thats a win almost every time. The worst hitting team in the league avg about 3 runs a game.

So you see A.G does great things but he WONT win you a game were as J.V WILL win games even if he was on the worst team in the league. So who is more Valuable?


Wow. Your Math sucks. About as bad as your analogy.

Every 5th game or twice a week. Are there 10 days a week now or is that just throw the Tigers Baseball Season?

And my friend all that did was convolute and already twisted comparison of pitcher vs position player. Each of the readers have their own perspective of which is more valuable.

In the case of Tiger's fans and Yankee/Sox haters Verlander would be "more valuable" than either Granderson or Gonzalez.

But, I tell you what. Let's put this into a perspective that all can understand. Now I am not going to post the complete stats of each because there is not enough room but,

Let's take as a sample two of the greatest and see how JV matches up with them.

Greg Maddux and Pedro Martinez. Take a look on baseballreference.com at their stats, especially the 94, 95 season for Mad dog, and the 99, 00 season for Pedro. Neither of them WON the MVP that year.

JV's current season does not come close to comparing to those HOFrs seasons and they DID NOT win the MVP. They both won CY's but not MVPs.

SO, IF Maddog and Pedro can't win an MVP with those types of career pitching performances.

NO WAY should JV. GL


Forfeited Turn

August 30, 2011  05:14 PM ET

Why would people hate you for this? The vast majority of people agree

August 30, 2011  05:28 PM ET

VOTE LEFT <---------------- lmao!

August 30, 2011  06:47 PM ET

I really wanna argue something but i completely agree, vote left!!

Comment #4 has been removed
August 31, 2011  07:20 AM ET

here's why i disagree....its' a bit trivial, but pitchers sort of have their own award, allowing a pitcher as an MVP candidate is kinda like giving an OF the Cy young....

August 31, 2011  09:39 AM ET

No Marlins Fan you are not the only one, I agree with you. I had made a point about pitchers in your blog recently as to why pitchers get rest but I will state it again here for everyone else. Everyone says that pitchers should not be considered because they only pitch every 5 days, well this is why they only pitch every 5 days. On avaerage we will say a pitcher throws 100 pitches in a game over a 10 game span that is 1000 hard pitches thrown. There is no way any other player on the field is putting their body through that. The pitcher exerts energy on every single play, not everyone on the field is running/throwing on every play. When the pitcher throws 5 pitches to get a guy out or atleast the ball in play those are "plays" that the other players have off in a sense. I think the pitcher is the hardest working player on the field and has every right to be mentioned for MVP.

August 31, 2011  10:18 AM ET
QUOTE(#6):

No Marlins Fan you are not the only one, I agree with you. I had made a point about pitchers in your blog recently as to why pitchers get rest but I will state it again here for everyone else. Everyone says that pitchers should not be considered because they only pitch every 5 days, well this is why they only pitch every 5 days. On avaerage we will say a pitcher throws 100 pitches in a game over a 10 game span that is 1000 hard pitches thrown. There is no way any other player on the field is putting their body through that. The pitcher exerts energy on every single play, not everyone on the field is running/throwing on every play. When the pitcher throws 5 pitches to get a guy out or atleast the ball in play those are "plays" that the other players have off in a sense. I think the pitcher is the hardest working player on the field and has every right to be mentioned for MVP.

Really? Hardest working? How about the catcher? according to your philosphy here, the catcher is also involved in every play, AND bats. How is the pounding his knees along with all the foul tips he takes off his body NOT make him the hardest working player on the field?

Now, take that 1000 hard pitches (unless you are Livan Hernandez lobbing up a 67 mph curve) and multiply that by ten, because again, the position players are out there absorbing the heat for all ten games. Plus whatever offense they can muster up during their at bats and time on base.

August 31, 2011  10:31 AM ET
QUOTE(#4):

Agreed. I'm pretty sure I'm about the only person on FN who believes a pitcher is deserving of the MVP award. And not just any pitcher, obviously, but specifically Justin Verlander.

im fine with pitchers getting the mvp, but i just dont think verlander deserves it. as great of a season as he is having, for a pitcher to win the mvp, i think it has to be a HISTORICAL season, and verlander is not, imo, having a historical season.

August 31, 2011  11:05 AM ET
QUOTE(#8):

im fine with pitchers getting the mvp, but i just dont think verlander deserves it. as great of a season as he is having, for a pitcher to win the mvp, i think it has to be a HISTORICAL season, and verlander is not, imo, having a historical season.

you practically stole my 3rd argument...I will expand on this point....thanks!

August 31, 2011  12:25 PM ET
QUOTE(#9):

you practically stole my 3rd argument...I will expand on this point....thanks!

lol

August 31, 2011  12:50 PM ET

"That is Justin Verlander, Day in and day out performs every other pitcher on the field and has put his team into a position to win there division."

Every fifth turn in the rotation, not every day.

August 31, 2011  01:03 PM ET
QUOTE(#7):

Really? Hardest working? How about the catcher? according to your philosphy here, the catcher is also involved in every play, AND bats. How is the pounding his knees along with all the foul tips he takes off his body NOT make him the hardest working player on the field?Now, take that 1000 hard pitches (unless you are Livan Hernandez lobbing up a 67 mph curve) and multiply that by ten, because again, the position players are out there absorbing the heat for all ten games. Plus whatever offense they can muster up during their at bats and time on base.

You make a very valid point about the catcher that I honestly did not even think about. I still disagree with the positional players however, yes they are out on the field but just standing out on the field means nothing. Lets not forget that just because a pitcher is not pitching that day does not mean he isnt there. Most of them sit out in with the relief pitchers during their off days, so they are exposed to the heat as well. We could also take into account comebackers, Pitchers are closer to the plate than anyone else (except the catcher of course) and have less time to react to a line drive than any other position. While comebackers are not as often as line drives to the 1B or 3B they still happen, so that makes the risk of injury for a pitcher that much higher. So now the pitcher has to worry about throwing his arm out along with being drilled by a line drive. And yes batters have to worry about being hit by a pitch which also ups their chance of injury, all I am trying to argue is that pitchers and positional players are equally valuable to the team and should at the very least be considered for MVP not just pushed off to the side.

August 31, 2011  01:09 PM ET

out in the bullpen.....yeah I missed a word or 2 so what lol

August 31, 2011  02:21 PM ET

Not once have I ever said that pitchers are not a value to their team. In fact, again being a Braves Homer, pitchers are well worth the money they are paid; or at least the good ones. That is also the reason they get paid well. IF JV starts 35 games this year he will make $457,143.00 per start....AG will receive just under 130K per game....So...is JV worth 3.5 X more than AG?

August 31, 2011  02:55 PM ET

This is an arguement that can go on forever, but your comparison to games started is not accurate. Yes AG starts more games but JV probably works harder the game he starts than AG does during that same span. By that I mean JV works harder during that 1 game than AG does during that 5 game span Lets use 2010 stats since the 2011 season is not over, granted this might be a little off because we don't know what these guys will end up with but hear me out. Last year JV made $6,750,000 and faced 925 batters so he made $7,297 per batter faced. AG made $4,750,000 last year and had 591 AB that's $8,039 per AB. So last year JV faced 1.5X as many batters as AG had AB's and made less per. Really anything can be made to favor the other side of the arguement. So I say we agree to disagree.

Comment #16 has been removed
September 1, 2011  10:41 AM ET
QUOTE(#16):

Yeah, but when you add the mental stress a pitcher takes as he debates what pitches to throw, I wouls still say a pitchers job is harder.

I guess that is one of the points they use during whether or not to have a DH.

"The pitcher is too stressed to bat"

September 1, 2011  11:17 AM ET

Mental stress? Really? Really?

September 1, 2011  12:26 PM ET
QUOTE(#17):

I guess that is one of the points they use during whether or not to have a DH."The pitcher is too stressed to bat"

Weak sauce! Dont the catcher & pitching coach call the game? If the SP doesnt like the call, he can change it himself.

Pedro a HOFer? Numbers alone, yes he should. But the writers vote them in. Pedro made a lot of enemies, so I'd guess it takes a while.

 
September 1, 2011  12:30 PM ET

Based off #'s Bonds should've gotten in based on what he did as a Pirate- I dont think he was on the roids then. Pete Rose based on his performance as a PLAYER. The all time hits leader doesnt get into the HOF?

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