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  • 09/04/2011, 11:13AM ET

Would the Lakers have won 2 titles with KG?

J-Business (78-66-19) vs Rudedog: Believe The Hype (370-317-81)
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Let's say in 2007, Kevin Garnett was traded to the Lakers in exchange for Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum (This was the proposed trade KG shot down)

To make this arguable, they don't make the mid-season trade for Gasol

Do the Lakers win 2 titles and possibly more?
No

The Lakers would have won the title a year earlier in 2007, but they don't win it in 2008 or 2009
Let's look at their lineup
C- Brown
PF - Garnett
SF - Ariza
SG - Kobe
PG - Fisher

Bench - Thin

The '08-'09 team, won the title mainly due to Gasol's contribution on the def and off ends

Gasol averaged 18 pts 11 rebs a game during the playoffs.

Gasol led the team in rebs and was 2nd in scoring. Also, w/ Bynum not being 100% ready, he played a lot of center.

In 08-09, Garnett was injured for a good portion of the season and missed the playoffs.

They definitely don't beat Denver or Orlando w/o KG and probably not with a banged up KG.

w/o Gasol and Odom in the reg season, they're also not the #1 seed and might not have made it past SA or Dallas

KG's game has declined in the past few yrs and no one turns back the clock.

Next argument, the Lakers and KG and the '09-'10 season


Here's the deal. Let's say the 2007 off-season KG joined Kobe. There would also have been some free agents who they could have signed like Fabrico Oberto or even Darko Milicic. Regardless, they could have had depth at C.

Given that, we'll say Fisher, Bryant, Ariza, Garnett, and Brown/Oberto/Milicic. The bench would feature Vujacic, Vlad, Walton off the bench. With KG's commitment to defense with Kobe, this team would have been solid at defense.

In the West, the 2007 year, the Lakers faced no competition and they wouldn't have with KG. The Nuggets, Jazz, and Spurs wouldn't have provided much resistance.

That leaves the Finals. I don't think the Celtics would have went after Ray without being able to get KG. That leaves either Detroit or Cleveland. I don't think LeBron could have led his team past the Lakers. The Pistons, at this point, were old and nothing like their old selves. Kobe wouldn't have let them lose again and KG being motivated in the Finals would have be too much.

Take this. With Boston, where he was the 3rd offensive option, he had 18.8 and 9.2 a game. He'd be closer to 20 and 10 with the Lakers.

The Lakers would have had a 2007 title

MTC


Very nice 1st argument.

But it's essentially what I already said in my first few lines

"The Lakers would have won the title a year earlier in 2007"

My entire 1st argument was after the 2007 season

By the '08 season, KG would have been a yr older and as we saw his injuries caught up with him. He was injured a good deal of the season and did not make the playoffs

For the '09-10 season, we have to be real about what KG brings to the floor
In the playoffs he avg 15pts, 7rebs

Odom alone averaged 10 pts, 9 rebs
W/ Bynum averaging 9 pts, 7 rebs

Those numbers alone more than match KG, and we're not even including
Gasol's 20 pts, 11 rebs

The Lakers would have picked up a player or two but none of them would have matched Gasol's output, let alone Odom and Bynum

If there's one thing we've learned in the NBA is that the big names, does not equal a title.
The combo of Kobe-KG sounds good but it's no where close to what Kobe-Gasol-Odom were able to do.

Keep in mind we're not talking about KG's career vs Gasol

Since 2007 Gasol has been a better player than KG

The Lakers would not have won 2 titles w/ KG instead of Gasol-Odom-Bynum


Now on to 2008 and beyond, which has been discussed a little in the comments section.

In the 2008 season, Marc Gasol made his NBA debut and surprised many people. He averaged 11 and 7 in his first year. With players like Kobe and KG around him, I think he'd truly be a better player.

Including the trade for Shannon Brown, which I believe would have still happened as the trade had nothing to do with Pau, the Lakers would have had some energy guys off the bench. And it's hard to say just how big an impact KG has for a team defensively, but it's a big one. Prior to KG's arrival, the Celtics players weren't known as defensive guys. KG comes along, they commit themselves to defense, and everything changed.

The 2008-09 playoffs, the Lakers suffered even less resistance than the year before. Outside of a Rockets scare, the Lakers weren't tested. The veteran presence of Kobe and KG would have kept them past both the Thunder and the Rockets, as well as the inexperienced Nuggets.

In the Finals, they very well could have met the Magic again, with the same outcome with Gasol on Howard and KG dominating down low.

2 and counting, sir


For the past 2 seasons PLAYER A has averaged:

'09-10 - 14 pts, 7 rebs
'10-11 - 15 pts, 9 rebs

PLAYER B

'09-10 - 15 pts, 9 rebs
'10-11 - 12 pts, 7 rebs

Together they average
'09-10 - 29 pts, 16 rebs
'10-11 - 27 pts, 16 rebs



Now let's look at whom they replaced
Player C
'09-10 - 18 pts, 11 rebs
'10-11 - 19 pts, 10 rebs

Player D
'09-10 - 11 pts, 10 rebs
'10-11 - 14 pts, 9 rebs

Player E
'09-10 - 15 pts, 8 rebs
'10-11 - 11 pts, 9 rebs

Total
'09-10 - 44 pts, 29 rebs
'10-11 - 44 pts, 28 rebs

You can get caught up names but you can't ignore the numbers
Players A, B - Garnett and Marc Gasol are good but they simply don't match the output of
P Gasol-Odom-Bynum who combined for almost half of the Lakers total pts

Even if you add another player to Garnett-Gasol, he still doesn't average more than 10 pts a game.

Garnett plays for the Boston Celtics. He's giving everything he has and it would be foolish to think he'd have another "gear" because he was on the Lakers.

I also find it hard to believe Marc Gasol would avg 30 mins a game for the Lakers as a rookie.

The Lakers w/ Garnett and M Gasol are decent but they only win 1 title


I think you're severely underrating the Gasol/Garnett combo. I'm not saying Marc is Pau, but he would have developed into a solid player. He's got a similar skill set as Pau with a bigger, more physical body.

And he really matured into something special this year/post-season. If the Lakers had given up Ariza and signed Ron Artest, think about how great defensively this team would have been? Marc, at 7'1, 270, would have been a big body in the middle with KG motivating the team.

And if KG never went to Boston, the whole landscape of the East would have altered. It's hard to say if James/Bosh/Wade would have joined. It's also hard to say what would have happened to someone like Rondo, or Ray Allen, or if the Celtics would have shipped out Pierce.

However, the Lakers have always been able to get the players. They would have put together a very good supporting cast around Bryant/Garnett/Gasol and I think that they would, at worst, win 2 titles. If you consider the fact that, in 2009, they beat the C's in the Finals, then who would they have played in 2009? No one near the Celtics level for sure. I honestly could see them with 3 titles.

Great TD Business

September 4, 2011  11:17 AM ET

Do I make this argument with the Pau Gasol mid-saeson trade or without the Lakers trading for Gasol?

September 4, 2011  12:21 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

Do I make this argument with the Pau Gasol mid-saeson trade or without the Lakers trading for Gasol?

They probably still would have went after Gasol. And they could have with the pieces they had

September 4, 2011  12:23 PM ET
QUOTE:

If they had KG they wouldn't have traded for gasol.

I think they still would have traded for Gasol. They gave up Kwame Brown, Crittendon and a draft pick (Marc Gasol). That was a no brainer.

September 4, 2011  12:25 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

Do I make this argument with the Pau Gasol mid-saeson trade or without the Lakers trading for Gasol?

Without LA trading for Gasol.

September 4, 2011  12:25 PM ET

With Gasol and KG, it's a no-brainer that they would have won 2 titles and possibly 3. I'm considering an argument with KG and Kobe as the main pieces.

September 4, 2011  12:38 PM ET

They would have, Business. KG is a better passer and defender. And his game would have meshed nicely with Kobe.

September 4, 2011  12:38 PM ET

**Kobe's*

September 4, 2011  12:55 PM ET
QUOTE(#4):

I think they still would have traded for Gasol. They gave up Kwame Brown, Crittendon and a draft pick (Marc Gasol). That was a no brainer.

This

September 4, 2011  01:13 PM ET
QUOTE(#7):

They would have, Business. KG is a better passer and defender. And his game would have meshed nicely with Kobe.

Hmmmmm. I believe I may beg to differ.

September 4, 2011  01:51 PM ET
QUOTE:

Who cares!

People who join a website to debate sports issues.

September 4, 2011  02:48 PM ET

Whoever accepts, feel free to include the Lakers with KG for the 08-09 season.

September 4, 2011  03:02 PM ET

Basically, you're saying KG instead of Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? Hard to think the Lakers would have even won one. This isn't really debatable unless you let the other side include Gasol, which could have still happened.

September 4, 2011  03:43 PM ET
QUOTE(#14):

Basically, you're saying KG instead of Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? Hard to think the Lakers would have even won one. This isn't really debatable unless you let the other side include Gasol, which could have still happened.

If the Lakers had KG and Gasol, then I'd take them in a heartbeat to have 2-3 titles. But I definitely feel they would have won a title in their first season. What's debatable is after the 2007 season.

September 4, 2011  04:05 PM ET

Wouldn't they have KG and Gasol, as in Marc Gasol. Yes, they would have won 2 rings.

September 4, 2011  04:34 PM ET
QUOTE(#17):

Wouldn't they have KG and Gasol, as in Marc Gasol. Yes, they would have won 2 rings.

Interesting but Marc Gasol wouldn't have come over until 2010 and he didn't blossom until the past season.

September 4, 2011  05:33 PM ET
QUOTE(#18):

Interesting but Marc Gasol wouldn't have come over until 2010 and he didn't blossom until the past season.

Why wouldn't he come till 2010? Also, whose to say KG is banged up in 08-09. He got hurt playing in a game going for an alley-oop, its not like the injury would have been a sure thing in LA

September 4, 2011  05:46 PM ET

I tried to find a way to argue yes... but without odom and bynum?? imposssssiiibbbllleee

September 4, 2011  05:48 PM ET
QUOTE(#19):

Why wouldn't he come till 2010? Also, whose to say KG is banged up in 08-09. He got hurt playing in a game going for an alley-oop, its not like the injury would have been a sure thing in LA

Sorry, Gasol came over in the '08-'09 season. Also you have to take the injury into account because by that token, than Bynum plays all 82 every season and it's all pointless.

September 4, 2011  06:01 PM ET
QUOTE(#17):

Wouldn't they have KG and Gasol, as in Marc Gasol. Yes, they would have won 2 rings.

Also does Gasol get as much time to develop under Phil Jackson who's trying to win a title. Let alone having Gasol having to learn the triangle offense.

 
September 4, 2011  07:28 PM ET

Of course not.

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