- 09/04/2011, 11:13AM ET
J-Business said 09/04, 01:46 PM
Let's say in 2007, Kevin Garnett was traded to the Lakers in exchange for Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum (This was the proposed trade KG shot down)
To make this arguable, they don't make the mid-season trade for Gasol
Do the Lakers win 2 titles and possibly more?
The Lakers would have won the title a year earlier in 2007, but they don't win it in 2008 or 2009
Let's look at their lineup
PF - Garnett
SF - Ariza
SG - Kobe
PG - Fisher
Bench - Thin
The '08-'09 team, won the title mainly due to Gasol's contribution on the def and off ends
Gasol averaged 18 pts 11 rebs a game during the playoffs.
Gasol led the team in rebs and was 2nd in scoring. Also, w/ Bynum not being 100% ready, he played a lot of center.
In 08-09, Garnett was injured for a good portion of the season and missed the playoffs.
They definitely don't beat Denver or Orlando w/o KG and probably not with a banged up KG.
w/o Gasol and Odom in the reg season, they're also not the #1 seed and might not have made it past SA or Dallas
KG's game has declined in the past few yrs and no one turns back the clock.
Next argument, the Lakers and KG and the '09-'10 season
Rudedog: Believe The Hype said 09/04, 08:59 PM
Here's the deal. Let's say the 2007 off-season KG joined Kobe. There would also have been some free agents who they could have signed like Fabrico Oberto or even Darko Milicic. Regardless, they could have had depth at C.
Given that, we'll say Fisher, Bryant, Ariza, Garnett, and Brown/Oberto/Milicic. The bench would feature Vujacic, Vlad, Walton off the bench. With KG's commitment to defense with Kobe, this team would have been solid at defense.
In the West, the 2007 year, the Lakers faced no competition and they wouldn't have with KG. The Nuggets, Jazz, and Spurs wouldn't have provided much resistance.
That leaves the Finals. I don't think the Celtics would have went after Ray without being able to get KG. That leaves either Detroit or Cleveland. I don't think LeBron could have led his team past the Lakers. The Pistons, at this point, were old and nothing like their old selves. Kobe wouldn't have let them lose again and KG being motivated in the Finals would have be too much.
Take this. With Boston, where he was the 3rd offensive option, he had 18.8 and 9.2 a game. He'd be closer to 20 and 10 with the Lakers.
The Lakers would have had a 2007 title
J-Business said 09/05, 10:37 AM
Very nice 1st argument.
But it's essentially what I already said in my first few lines
"The Lakers would have won the title a year earlier in 2007"
My entire 1st argument was after the 2007 season
By the '08 season, KG would have been a yr older and as we saw his injuries caught up with him. He was injured a good deal of the season and did not make the playoffs
For the '09-10 season, we have to be real about what KG brings to the floor
In the playoffs he avg 15pts, 7rebs
Odom alone averaged 10 pts, 9 rebs
W/ Bynum averaging 9 pts, 7 rebs
Those numbers alone more than match KG, and we're not even including
Gasol's 20 pts, 11 rebs
The Lakers would have picked up a player or two but none of them would have matched Gasol's output, let alone Odom and Bynum
If there's one thing we've learned in the NBA is that the big names, does not equal a title.
The combo of Kobe-KG sounds good but it's no where close to what Kobe-Gasol-Odom were able to do.
Keep in mind we're not talking about KG's career vs Gasol
Since 2007 Gasol has been a better player than KG
The Lakers would not have won 2 titles w/ KG instead of Gasol-Odom-Bynum
Rudedog: Believe The Hype said 09/05, 11:23 PM
Now on to 2008 and beyond, which has been discussed a little in the comments section.
In the 2008 season, Marc Gasol made his NBA debut and surprised many people. He averaged 11 and 7 in his first year. With players like Kobe and KG around him, I think he'd truly be a better player.
Including the trade for Shannon Brown, which I believe would have still happened as the trade had nothing to do with Pau, the Lakers would have had some energy guys off the bench. And it's hard to say just how big an impact KG has for a team defensively, but it's a big one. Prior to KG's arrival, the Celtics players weren't known as defensive guys. KG comes along, they commit themselves to defense, and everything changed.
The 2008-09 playoffs, the Lakers suffered even less resistance than the year before. Outside of a Rockets scare, the Lakers weren't tested. The veteran presence of Kobe and KG would have kept them past both the Thunder and the Rockets, as well as the inexperienced Nuggets.
In the Finals, they very well could have met the Magic again, with the same outcome with Gasol on Howard and KG dominating down low.
2 and counting, sir
J-Business said 09/06, 05:22 PM
For the past 2 seasons PLAYER A has averaged:
'09-10 - 14 pts, 7 rebs
'10-11 - 15 pts, 9 rebs
'09-10 - 15 pts, 9 rebs
'10-11 - 12 pts, 7 rebs
Together they average
'09-10 - 29 pts, 16 rebs
'10-11 - 27 pts, 16 rebs
Now let's look at whom they replaced
'09-10 - 18 pts, 11 rebs
'10-11 - 19 pts, 10 rebs
'09-10 - 11 pts, 10 rebs
'10-11 - 14 pts, 9 rebs
'09-10 - 15 pts, 8 rebs
'10-11 - 11 pts, 9 rebs
'09-10 - 44 pts, 29 rebs
'10-11 - 44 pts, 28 rebs
You can get caught up names but you can't ignore the numbers
Players A, B - Garnett and Marc Gasol are good but they simply don't match the output of
P Gasol-Odom-Bynum who combined for almost half of the Lakers total pts
Even if you add another player to Garnett-Gasol, he still doesn't average more than 10 pts a game.
Garnett plays for the Boston Celtics. He's giving everything he has and it would be foolish to think he'd have another "gear" because he was on the Lakers.
I also find it hard to believe Marc Gasol would avg 30 mins a game for the Lakers as a rookie.
The Lakers w/ Garnett and M Gasol are decent but they only win 1 title
Rudedog: Believe The Hype said 09/07, 02:59 PM
I think you're severely underrating the Gasol/Garnett combo. I'm not saying Marc is Pau, but he would have developed into a solid player. He's got a similar skill set as Pau with a bigger, more physical body.
And he really matured into something special this year/post-season. If the Lakers had given up Ariza and signed Ron Artest, think about how great defensively this team would have been? Marc, at 7'1, 270, would have been a big body in the middle with KG motivating the team.
And if KG never went to Boston, the whole landscape of the East would have altered. It's hard to say if James/Bosh/Wade would have joined. It's also hard to say what would have happened to someone like Rondo, or Ray Allen, or if the Celtics would have shipped out Pierce.
However, the Lakers have always been able to get the players. They would have put together a very good supporting cast around Bryant/Garnett/Gasol and I think that they would, at worst, win 2 titles. If you consider the fact that, in 2009, they beat the C's in the Finals, then who would they have played in 2009? No one near the Celtics level for sure. I honestly could see them with 3 titles.
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