- 10/02/2011, 10:16PM ET
Rudedog: Believe The Hype said 10/02, 10:16 PM
You have a TD claiming it's the Vikings. Whether that's your feelings or not, they aren't the worst team in the NFL. Are they up there? Yes. But not the worst.
You know who is the worst? The Indianapolis Colts
Led by the pride of Purdue, Curtis Painter, this team is leading this team of misfits. Let's take a look at some DJ specials, aka statistics
Total offense - 29th
Pass offense - 27th
Rush defense - 22nd
Total defense - 18th
And those numbers also come with the benefit of facing the offensive juggernaut Cleveland Browns.
The Vikings, however, have played 3 playoff teams (San Diego, Tampa, and Detroit). And hell, Kansas City was a playoff team last year, just a team riddled with injuries. Their losses are understandable.
And at the head of the Colts is the most vocal, animated leader in the NFL, Jim Caldwell. This man already was questioned with Manning at the helm making him look good. Now without him, Painter and Collins are helping show his true colors.
The Vikings are bad, but they're shooting themselves in the foot and can fix things. The Colts are just flat out bad.
Mrlns Fn said 10/03, 12:55 AM
The Colts are missing their key player, Peyton Manning.
When Manning is healthy, the Colts are a different team. No matter how bad things are for the Colts right now, they know when Peyton comes back they'll be a tough team once again,
The Vikings have no such hope. They don't have the excuse of missing a key player. They don't have the hope of a franchise player coming back to save the day.
The Colts are 0-3 because Manning is hurt.
The 0-4 Vikings are a terrible team with an incompetent coach.
Even at full strength, the Vikings barely rank higher than the Colts in total offense. And that's just because they have one great player, Adrian Peterson.
A quick look at passing stats shows the Colts (29th) are actually outperforming the Vikings (31st).
In total defense, the Vikings rank 19th and the Colts 20th. It's splitting hairs to say the Vikes are better on defense; the two teams are neck and neck.
You mention coaching, but Frazier is the main reason the Vikings are winless.
When Peterson said he needed more carries, Frazier said he had to remind himself to get AP more than 5 carries in the second half of a close game.
Rudedog: Believe The Hype said 10/03, 05:45 PM
You seriously over-exaggerate Leslie Frazier's comments after the game. I think he misspoke and it's a non-issue now. AP had 24 carries yesterday with about 12 in each half. It's not a problem.
As for the Vikings, they may not be down a player, but they are shooting themselves in the foot more than anything. The biggest things is that they are 2nd to last in the league with an average of 8 penalties a game. And they have been momentum killing penalties too: numerous holds on big AP runs, a face mask penalty on 3rd down against the Chiefs were they drove to get a FG after, offsides against the Chargers to end the game. Those are just a couple that come to mind, but this team is close.
And we know all about their second half struggles. This year, they've outscored teams 61-16 in the first half. That's a staggering number. But in the second of games, they've been outscored 80-16, which is more staggering number. This team is the definition of a "tale of two halves." And it's simple things they aren't doing that's hurting them.
What does that all mean? Their problems are fixable problems. The Colts are just a group of bad players that isn't fixable.
Mrlns Fn said 10/04, 01:39 AM
How am I exaggerating Frazier's stupid comment?
I pretty much just said exactly what Frazier said. It's more of a quote than an exaggeration...
Anyway, your second argument proved my point about Frazier's ineptitude.
You mention how the Vikings are next to last in the League as far as penalties, with 8 per game. This is evidence of an undisciplined team, and a lack of discipline can usually be attributed directly to the coach. Especially the big momentum killing penalties. It's Frazier's job to make sure his players are focused at all times, and paricularly when the game is on the line. He's doing a poor job of this.
Same thing with the second half struggles. The fact that the Vikings are being outscored so drastically in the second half of games indicates inadequate half time adjustments by Frazier.
Whether it's Frazier refusing to make the proper adjustments, or the opposing teams' coaches making better adjustments, either way the onus is on Frazier. If he was doing his job, his team wouldn't have been consistently outperformed in the second half of every game.
Frazier is a bad coach, but he fits in because the Vikings are a bad team.
Rudedog: Believe The Hype said 10/04, 10:17 AM
You're exaggerating it because it hasn't been a problem outside of that one game really. And you're putting far too much blame on Frazier. He can only do so much. The players have to execute. If you want to compare coaches, I'd take Frazier over Caldwell 10 times out of 10.
And the stats I gave you were to prove that the Vikings can hang with teams. If you've watched the first half of the Chargers, Bucs, or Lions games, you'd think that the team playing was a Super Bowl team. That's honestly how good this team has been. I don't see how you can call this team the worst team in the league when a team like the Colts or Dolphins hasn't shown any signs of being a competitive team.
Miami has lost by double digits in 3 of their 4 games.
Indianapolis has lost by one score or more in 3 of the 4 games.
Minnesota has not lost by double digits this year.
Fact is, Minnesota is a bad team, but not the worst team. They have multiple Pro Bowlers and have shown far more signs of being a good team than the Colts and the Dolphins. Those two are your worst teams in the NFL
Mrlns Fn said 10/05, 03:41 AM
You're overestimating the Vikings schedule. As has already been pointed out in the somments, calling the teams on Minny's schedule playoff teams is pretty inaccurate.
All three teams you mentioned (Lions, Buccaneers, Chargers) missed the playoffs last year.
And the Chiefs, the one team that made the Playoffs last year, have been an abomination this season and are missing their two best players, Eric Berry and Jamaal Charles.
Minnesota is 0-4 against these teams, and that's nothing to be proud of, no matter how you try to spin it.
I mean seriously, Rude, how can you justify losing to the Chiefs? The Chiefs have gotten blown out in most of their games and have looked woefully incompetent all season. I can't see any way that, as a fan, I could be ok with a loss to Kansas City...
Anyway, the Colts have lost 4 games as well, but 2 of those losses were to the Pittsburgh Steelers and Houston Texans. It's not like the Colts are out there losing to the Chiefs...
Not to keep harping about that, but the Chiefs? Seriously, the Chiefs? (in my best Jim Mora voice...)
Sorry Rude, but your Vikings are the NFL's worst team. Plain and simple.
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