- 10/03/2011, 08:04PM ET
DJRoxalot said 10/03, 08:04 PM
TD topic: Jay Cutler vs Jeff George, who would you rather have (in their prime obviously)?
The reason I started this TD and got the idea for the topic is because people on here are always saying Cutler is the next Jeff George.
Cutler isn't the most accurate QB, he does throw some stupid INT's (not as bad as Mark Sanchez tough) and makes some bonehead plays in general. But, it can't be all piled on his shoulders. He has a good RB, but his OL is weak and he needs some help at WR.
However, if I had to choose between these 2 QB's, I would take Cutler in a heartbeat.
Cutler has completed 61.2% of his passes for 236.9ypg, 7.2ypa, 18.2 TD's per season, 13.7 INT's with an 84.2 Passer Rating.
He has carried the ball 207 times for 851 yards (4.1ypc) and 11.7ypg.
He is 36-37 as a starting QB and 1-1 in the playoffs.
George completed 57.9% of his passes for 210.7ypa, 7.0ypa, 12.8 TD's per season, 9.4 INT's with a 80.4 Passer Rating
He carried the ball 168 times for 307 yards (1.8ypc) and 2.3ypg.
He was 47-80 as a starting QB and 1-2 in the postseason.
Golden Grillz said 10/04, 10:07 AM
Compare these 5 QBs:
E would look like the best QB statistically, and you might think he's the QB you would want.
QB A & B have the worst stats among the group, but no one would take Jay Cutler (E) over Johnny Unitas (A) & Terry Bradshaw (B)?
Of course you're going to say the eras were too different to compare these players. So what about the 90's to today? Would you take Cutler (E) over Troy Aikman (C)? No
Aikman's #'s are going to be lower when you consider Emmitt in the backfield. So the 'Boys didn't need to pass as much, but Aikman was capable to get to the playoffs and when the SB. Proof you can't just compare QB stats side by side. Escpecially from different decades.
Things to consider when comparing George (D) era and Cutler. The NFL is a passer friendly league. There are more 4k yrd passers than ever.
Why George over Cutler?
George got to the Playoff dance 2x, to Cutler's 1x. He may have lost, but got a chance...
DJRoxalot said 10/04, 12:06 PM
You bring up 5 players that all had a better offensive line than Cutler? Um, okay. The argument is Cutler vs George, 2 comparable gunslingers.
"Things to consider when comparing George (D) era and Cutler. The NFL is a passer friendly league. There are more 4k yrd passers than ever."
There were a whopping 5 4,000 yard passer last season. It isn't like the NFL has turned into the Arena Football league where they pass 80-90% of the time.
George averaged 30.3 pass attempts per game. In contrast to Cutler, who averages 32.4 passes a game for his career. Not a huge discrepancy, GG.
"Why George over Cutler?
George got to the playoff dance 2x, to Cutler's 1x. He may have lost, but got a chance."
Cutler's career is still going strong. No reason to think he will not make anymore playoff appearances at all.
But if you want to go there, we can go there. Cutler made it to the NFC Championship game, George never made it that far. Despite playing with a better OL, offensive talent (RB Robert Smith, WR's Randy Moss and Cris Carter) and an overall better team with the 1999 Vikings.
Golden Grillz said 10/04, 12:48 PM
You call these "2 Comparable gunslingers"
Yet you missed the point in my first argument, the stats aren't comparable:
- Over every decade there has been a transition in passing game making the stats from 1 decade to another hard to look at side by side.
- Better O talent. You list players Moss and CC, but ignore Brandon Marshall, Forte
- Even more impressive is the coaching Cutler has been surrounded by, HOFer Mike Shanahan, and Martz (love/hate him his QBs put up big #s)
- What is your definition of better OL? Amount of sacks given up? Mike Martz's Offenses notoriously lead the league in sacks given up
Here's the Martz factor. How many times his QBs were sacked each season (as OC and HC)
Looks to me, it is a coaching issue and not entirely an OL issue for Cutler's failures.
As for Cutler's inflated stats, Mike Martz made the great (sarcasm) Jon Kitna a back to back 4k+ yrds passer for Detroit.
Jeff George played for multiple teams, and coaches (mostly bad ones), and still produced. Until Cutler still has a lot to prove.
DJRoxalot said 10/04, 03:27 PM
"Better O talent. You list players Moss and CC, but ignore Brandon Marshall, Forte."
Marshall is good player, sure. But a HOF'er? Hell no.
George had 2 HOF caliber WR's and a very good RB in Smith (4 straight 1,000 yard seasons) who had to retire ue to injuries. His last season he averaged 5.1ypc and had 1,521 rushing yards.
"What is your definition of better OL?"
The teams you listed all had a better OL. This is common knowledge. Plus they also had great RB's and great WR's. Aikman had Smith, Michael Irvin, and he also had a pretty damn good TE in Jay Novacek.
Bradshaw? He had Franco Harris, John Stallworth, and Lynn Swann. Plus they had a dominant defense. You cannot compare Cutler to QB's that had better players that made their job easier.
"As for Cutler's inflated stats, Mike Martz made the great (sarcasm) Jon Kitna a back to back 4k+ yrds passer for Detroit."
1-Martz has only been in Chicago since 2010.
2-Cutler performed just as well (if not better) in Denver.
62.4%, 243.9ypg, 7.4ypa, 54 TD's, 37 INT's in 3 seasons.
It wasn't like he magically turned into a good QB in Chicago.
Golden Grillz said 10/05, 10:31 AM
You're missing the turd in the punch bowl here.
StL years Martz had HOF LT Pace, and he still gave up 30+ sacks. Don't tell me it's the OL, and not in combination the system. DEs don't kill QBs, Martz kills QBs.
On the flip side, Martz inflates QB stats (see Shaun Hill and Jon Kitna).
Jay Cutler took his first NFL snap in 2006, 4 years after George took his last. These guys have played in different NFL eras.
The game is constantly evolving, between the run and shoot, West Coast, to the spread. Making it hard to compare players from different teams, let alone different eras.
Both QBs have had their leadership skills questioned.
George has been considered an arrogant...
While Cutler, a whiney wimp...
Here are some images of both guys. Tell me, which one looks like someone with the confidence to lead and rely on:
I couldn't find ANY pictures of George pouting on the sidelines (sweet mullet and stache though)
Plenty more of that for Cutler. Not really inspiring...Gotta go w/ George
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