- 10/15/2011, 05:26PM ET
harrisplz said 10/15, 07:21 PM
After watching the Bears and the Vikings play this season, I think its pretty safe to assume that a good O-Line is more important than a good RB.
The O-Line is essential for both the running game AND the passing game. Most teams don't have the luxury of employing a star QB who can release the ball quickly enough to compensate for constant pressure, nor do most teams have a star RB who can whip through tight gaps at unbelievable speed.
A good O-Line is just simply a requirement for all productive offenses, whereas a good RB is just a bonus.
When's the last time we saw a team with a poor O-Line dominate on the offensive end?
And more importantly, how many times have we seen good RB's get suppressed because of a horrible O-Line? Far too many times.
Just take a look at the Vikings and the Falcons from weeks 1-4.
This not to say that a good RB is not important, but just to say that a good O-Line is MORE important.
DJRoxalot said 10/16, 02:56 AM
An elite RB or even very good RB can still have success with a bad OL. A below average to average RB cannot. Darren McFaddden is an excellent example. The Raiders don't have a great OL. It is average at best, more likely a little below average.
The Raiders are averaging 161.8 rushing ypg (2nd) and 27.2ppg (8th in the NFL). McFadden is averaging an NFL-best 103.8ypg and 5.7ypc 2nd among RB's. The Raiders have an excellent chance to win the AFC West.
Matt Forte is having a heck of a year. He is leading the NFL in yards from scrimmage playing behind perhaps the worst OL.
LeSean McCoy is averaging an NFL-best 5.8ypc and 88.6ypg (7th), despite running behind a bad OL. The run defense is awful and Michael Vick is a turnover machine.
A QB? Not so much. Week 1, Donovan McNabb had 1 of his worst games ever as a pro. He completed 7 of 15 passes for a measly 39 yards. He was getting no time to complete passes to open receivers.
Sam Bradford is another example of a QB needing a better OL. He is completing just 49.7% because he has no time to find an open receiver and is forced to throw the ball out of bounds.
harrisplz said 10/16, 12:42 PM
I've agreed from the beginning that very good RBs can have success with a bad O-Line. But my point was, how many of those "good" RBs are there that can succeed with a bad O-Line?
McFadden and Forte are arguably the best players at their position.
And the Raiders/Bears aren't necessarily translating their elite RB+poor O-Line into wins. The two teams are a combined 5-5.
And like you mentioned in the second part of your argument, a poor O-Line is going to kill the passing game. Anyone that has been watching the Bears know what I'm talking about. Jay Cutler is just about as average as a QB can get; have you seen the frustration that he is dealing with because of the O-Line? Teams just absolutely NEED to protect their QBs.
Take a look at the Cowboys and Eagles. If they had half a decent O-Line, their QBs wouldn't be so banged up.
Overall, it's important to just see that while an offense CAN have some success with a poor O-Line, its very unlikely. On the other hand, there are plenty of offenses that are productive with a good O-Line and an average RB.
DJRoxalot said 10/16, 01:03 PM
"And the Raiders/Bears aren't necessarily translating their elite RB+poor O-Line into wins."
5-5? Defense, junior. There is more to the game than just offense. And that cannot be ignored.
"When's the last time we saw a team with a poor O-Line dominate on the offensive end?"
Tony Romo is completing 65.1% of his passes for 318ypg, 8.38ypa, 7 TD's, 5 INT's with a 92.9 Passer Rating. People can bash him all they want, but he is playing very good for a guy that doesn't have a whole lot of protection.
Aaron Rodgers ring a bell? He is completing 71.7% of his passes for 344 ypg, 9.56ypa, 14 Td's, 2 INT's with a 122.9 PR.
I didn't have enough space in the first argument so I left off perhaps the best RB (I think it's D-Mac personally) in the NFL. Adrian Peterson is averaging 99.6ypg and 4.5ypc. Now, they don't have a lot of wins, but if you watch the Vikings games? It isn't because the Vikings suck, they have a 1st year HC who is making some awful decisions as he learns on the job.
harrisplz said 10/16, 02:14 PM
All you've really pointed out is that it is POSSIBLE to have a offense work out with a poor O-Line.
For the LAST time, I've agreed from the beginning that it IS POSSIBLE with elite QBs and RBs. It's just that majority of the teams just don't have that luxury.
Tony Romo is no elite QB but he just has so much more to work with; the selection of wide receivers he has to work with and the TE that Cowboys employ is a QB's dream.
But most importantly, you still haven't proven that having a good RB is more important than having a good O-Line.
You can't just name several anomalies and act like the average offense in the NFL can function without a good O-Line.
Look at how well the 49ers are playing this year BECAUSE of their excellent O-Line; they're making Alex Smith look a lot better than he actually is.
Look how mundane the Vikings and the Bear's offense is. Yea individuals are having success, but without the O-Line, the entire offense isn't succeeding.
DJRoxalot said 10/16, 02:25 PM
"For the LAST time, I've agreed from the beginning that it IS POSSIBLE with elite QBs and RBs."
So, easy win attempt?
"Tony Romo is no elite QB but he just has so much more to work with; the selection of wide receivers he has to work with and the TE that Cowboys employ is a QB's dream."
If you just look at their roster, you can say that. Let me ask you a ? Who are Laurent Robinson and Kevin Ogletree? Any idea?
I didn't think so. Miles Austin has played in 2 games and has 14 catches. Dez Bryant has battled an injury all season. Robinson and Ogletree are players that have existed on the fringe of the NFL for years. They are career backups and not household names.
"Look at how well the 49ers are playing this year BECAUSE of their excellent O-Line; they're making Alex Smith look a lot better than he actually is."
[/I]The 49ers OL isn't that great. Smith has been sacked 14 times, 6th most in the NFL.[/I]
The 49ers are playing a lot better because of their coaching.
"Look at how mundane the Vikings and the Bear's offense is."
What did I say in my 2nd argument about coaching?
Case closed and game over.
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