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  • 10/15/2011, 11:53PM ET

How important is it to have an elite PG?

harrisplz (20-10-1) vs J-Business (78-66-18)
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I've been wanting to do this TD for while...

In recent years, the NBA has officially turned into a "PG League"; big, bruising centers are becoming extinct and quality point-guards are more becoming more and more abundant.

And with this surge of PGs, a lot of teams have sought the likes of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Steve Nash in free agency, throwing them the kind of money superstars deserve.

And I ask why? I'm going to straight up come out and say what a lot of NBA fans won't like to hear. I think Deron Williams, Chris Paul and Steve Nash are NOT superstars!

And my reasoning behind this is that while the NBA may have transitioned into a more PG oriented league, championships are still won with the highly coveted BIG MEN.

Let's take a look at the last 12 years:

Lakers- 5
Spurs- 3
Pistons- 1
Heat- 1
Celtics- 1
Mavs- 1

Arguably, only the Celtics had an "elite PG." (whether Rondo is actually that good is another debate)

An astounding 8 of those finals were won by the Lakers and the Spurs who featured Shaq/ Pau-Bynum and Duncan.

Elite PG's are nice to have, but not necessary at all.


While your suggestion holds some truth, it's only relevant for the past decade

The overwhelming majority of those clubs had either Shaq or Tim Duncan patrolling the middle. Those players and other big men like them are either retired or close to it.

Pau-Bynum is good, however they have not been the deciding factor in their championships. Kobe and to an extent, the steady play of Derek Fisher have been equally as important.

A close look at the NBA Finals will show that the difference between Miami and Dallas was the play of the PG. Dallas has a decent one, and Miami has garbage.

If we look at the 6 conference leaders from last season - Boston, Chicago, Miami, San Antonio, OKC, LA
Four of these teams have a top level PG and only the Lakers have an elite big man.

The future of the NBA will be more impacted by the play of Westbrook, Rose, Rondo, Paul and Williams more so than the very few big men.

In fact, it can be said that Dwight Howard is the only superstar big man in the NBA right now.

Point being, it's true that the past decade has belonged to big men, but it's quite clear that the current and future NBA will be dominated by point guards.


All you really proved was that the NBA is in fact a PG league- something I agreed with very the beginning.

The only time you actually tried to prove that having an "elite PG" is important was through your references to this years finals and conference leaders.

Goodness gracious, where to start...

While Jason Kidd was important to the steady play of the Mavs, the real difference maker in the finals was Dirk WITHOUT A DOUBT. A "close look at the NBA finals," as you mentioned will that Jason Kidd was better than Mario Chalmers at controlling the tempo, and that's it.

In no freaking way was the finals determined by PG. play. ( cough cough Lebron )

As for the conference leader reference? That example in some ways even supports my argument. All those teams with star-power point guards somehow found a way to LOSE in the playoffs, again and again!

All I want to say really is that while PG's are dominating the league, Big Men are still the more important component to creating a championship caliber team.

And my argument only holds truth from the last decade? Is this some kind of a joke? Big Men= championships since forever.


A large part of your argument is based on the past that we no longer live in

Yes, big men have been the main key to NBA titles

From the 60's to the mid 2000's the NBA has been dominated by
60's: Russell - Wilt
70's: Kareem - Bill Walton - Gilmore
80's: Kareem - Parrish - Hakeem
90's: Hakeem - Shaq - Ewing - Robinson
00's: Shaq - Duncan

Currently there is only one superstar big man and that's Dwight Howard and he hasn't won a title and doesn't rank close to the greats of past decades

And even then, he's only one truly elite center. After him, the next best centers are Bynum, Bogut, Marc Gasol and Nene

While it may be true that all of those conf leaders lost in the playoffs, none of them were because they went up against an elite center

In fact, Dwight Howard was eliminated in the 1st rd and he's the only elite center in the league

I could also make the argument that the wing players have had a much greater impact due to Kobe, LeBron and Wade

The current crop of PG's are some of the best in the past 20 yrs.

Fact is, the center position is the weakest it's been in decades and will have less of an impact than the PG


Forfeited Turn

Comment #1 has been removed
October 16, 2011  01:33 AM ET

Tony Parker? Some consider him to be an "elite" PG.

October 16, 2011  01:54 AM ET
QUOTE(#2):

Tony Parker? Some consider him to be an "elite" PG.

Oh boy.. Tony Parker an elite PG? You could make a really shabby argument that he was 5 years back.

But we all know that Tony is in no way an elite PG now. That could be another TD I guess; in fact, it's one I would take on any time of the day.

Almost laughable for someone to suggest Tony is an elite PG actually

Not to mention Tony was the finals MVP for ONE of THREE finals the Spurs one. And it happens to be the one where they swept the Cavs and their deficient PG's. Not to mention the fact that Duncan was getting doubled everytime on the block, freeing up Tony to do work and put up easy points.

October 16, 2011  02:20 AM ET
QUOTE(#3):

Oh boy.. Tony Parker an elite PG? You could make a really shabby argument that he was 5 years back. But we all know that Tony is in no way an elite PG now. That could be another TD I guess; in fact, it's one I would take on any time of the day. Almost laughable for someone to suggest Tony is an elite PG actuallyNot to mention Tony was the finals MVP for ONE of THREE finals the Spurs one. And it happens to be the one where they swept the Cavs and their deficient PG's. Not to mention the fact that Duncan was getting doubled everytime on the block, freeing up Tony to do work and put up easy points.

The 3 Finals years with stats in regular season - playoffs

2003 - 15.5 ppg, 5.3 apg - 14.7 ppg, 4.3 apg
2005 - 17.5 ppg, 6.5 apg - 17.2 ppg, 4.3 apg
2007 - 20.2 ppg, 6.1 apg - 20.8 ppg, 5.8 apg

To not call him one of the elite PGs in the league during at least the latter two of those Finals would be laughable

October 16, 2011  03:00 AM ET

Good openers by both.

October 16, 2011  03:03 AM ET
QUOTE(#4):

The 3 Finals years with stats in regular season - playoffs2003 - 15.5 ppg, 5.3 apg - 14.7 ppg, 4.3 apg2005 - 17.5 ppg, 6.5 apg - 17.2 ppg, 4.3 apg2007 - 20.2 ppg, 6.1 apg - 20.8 ppg, 5.8 apgTo not call him one of the elite PGs in the league during at least the latter two of those Finals would be laughable

Its hilarious how you pull those stats and act like you know something.

Compare those stats to those of who we consider to be "elite pgs" today.

Rose, Williams, and Paul EASILY smash those assist numbers.

Tony barely broke 6 assists a game and you're trying to compare that to Chris Paul's 20-10 seasons? Holy crap!

You're hilarious.

October 16, 2011  03:15 AM ET

The future of the NBA will be more impacted by the play of Westbrook, Rose, Rondo, Paul and Williams more so than the very few big men.

(???) From that list, Rose is off the charts (???)

October 16, 2011  03:15 AM ET
QUOTE(#7):

The future of the NBA will be more impacted by the play of Westbrook, Rose, Rondo, Paul and Williams more so than the very few big men.(???) From that list, Rose is off the charts (???)

*Fail.

October 16, 2011  02:07 PM ET

Arguably, only the Celtics had an "elite PG." (whether Rondo is actually that good is another debate)

I was with you until you said this insanity. It's not a debate and it's not arguable. Rondo is legit!

October 16, 2011  02:22 PM ET
QUOTE(#10):

Arguably, only the Celtics had an "elite PG." (whether Rondo is actually that good is another debate) I was with you until you said this insanity. It's not a debate and it's not arguable. Rondo is legit!

Rondo as rookie was actually nothing now that I think about it. Rondo was a superstar in 08? Please.

October 16, 2011  02:26 PM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Its hilarious how you pull those stats and act like you know something. Compare those stats to those of who we consider to be "elite pgs" today. Rose, Williams, and Paul EASILY smash those assist numbers. Tony barely broke 6 assists a game and you're trying to compare that to Chris Paul's 20-10 seasons? Holy crap!You're hilarious.

U mad bro?

October 16, 2011  02:29 PM ET

An elite pg is very important. Just happens that they still need players who can score so they have players who can facilitate the offense. It seems like it is becoming which superstar can score more than the other team. For example: Durant, Bryant, Rose, LeBron. It's important to have an elite player whichever position. I would rank it like this for position importance of an elite player.

1. Center
2. PG
3. PF
4. SF
5. SG

But then again it all depends on the roster of the team. If a team has a dominant SG and SF a elite PG isnt as important. But a team with an elite C will benefit immensely from an elite PG.

October 16, 2011  02:35 PM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Its hilarious how you pull those stats and act like you know something. Compare those stats to those of who we consider to be "elite pgs" today. Rose, Williams, and Paul EASILY smash those assist numbers. Tony barely broke 6 assists a game and you're trying to compare that to Chris Paul's 20-10 seasons? Holy crap!You're hilarious.

Saying Tony Parker wasn't an elite pg is just stupid. So no one is elite scoring wise because they don't have the points scored that Wilt had? You are just making yourself seem stupid saying because Paul and Williams have more apg then he had that Parker was not an elite PG. There is more to it then apg. He made that team a lot better. And was an elite PG.

October 16, 2011  02:39 PM ET
QUOTE(#11):

Rondo as rookie was actually nothing now that I think about it. Rondo was a superstar in 08? Please.

when he said whether Rondo is actually that good...meaning RIGHT NOW! aint no one talking about '08. It's called comprehension

October 16, 2011  02:43 PM ET
QUOTE(#14):

Saying Tony Parker wasn't an elite pg is just stupid. So no one is elite scoring wise because they don't have the points scored that Wilt had? You are just making yourself seem stupid saying because Paul and Williams have more apg then he had that Parker was not an elite PG. There is more to it then apg. He made that team a lot better. And was an elite PG.

So you want to come out an argue that Tony is an elite pg? I'll take you on that TD.

October 16, 2011  02:44 PM ET
QUOTE(#15):

when he said whether Rondo is actually that good...meaning RIGHT NOW! aint no one talking about '08. It's called comprehension

Look at the first argument.

I said only Boston arguably had a elite pg.

keyword- "HAD."- in their championship year.

Whatever, everyone knows how good Rondo is now.

October 16, 2011  02:45 PM ET

Rondo can't hit the side of a barn if his life depended on it.

October 16, 2011  02:46 PM ET
QUOTE(#16):

So you want to come out an argue that Tony is an elite pg? I'll take you on that TD.

Tony Parker was an elite PG during the Spurs playoff runs. That I would TD about. He isn't today, he is a solid PG but not an elite one.

October 16, 2011  02:47 PM ET
QUOTE(#16):

So you want to come out an argue that Tony is an elite pg? I'll take you on that TD.

I know reading comprehension isnt for everyone but see how I said to say he wasn't an elite pg is dumb and you come around and say you would TD that Tony Parker is not an elite pg. See the big difference there. I was talking about during the Spurs playoff runs and you are talking about now.

 
October 16, 2011  02:47 PM ET

Goodness gracious is an under used phrase.

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