- 11/21/2011, 07:50PM ET
(KMac) Lame Sauce said 11/21, 07:50 PM
In his top 10 receivers of all time Peter King had Jerry Rice at #2 behind Don Hutson.
I'm sorry but there's no way that he's right.
Yes, it is true that Jerry Rice played A LOT longer than Don Hutson and in an era with some great QB's. In fact, he had two of the top 10 QB's in history throwing to him. BUT it was also an era with great, physical cornerbacks such as Deion Sanders, Albert Lewis, and Rod Woodson. Even matched against some of these greats, Jerry Rice still proved that he was the best in the business.
Back in Don Hutson's playing days (1935-1945), most of the talent was oversea's fighting in World War 2. I'm not saying that he's a bad person for not joining the military, as I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason that he didn't.
I'll save stats for my next argument, but is there even anyone who disagrees with this?
DJRoxalot said 11/21, 08:32 PM
It's always tough to compare players from different era's but I will give it a go.
Yes, I disagree.
In 1943, Don Hutson caught 74 passes for 1,211 yards, 16.4ypc, 110.1ypg with 17 TD's. Now that is a very good season nowadays, but back in the 1940's that was an great season.
Packers players caught just 172 passes that season, 28 TD's. He caught 43% of the teams receptions and 60.7% of the teams TD receptions.
Hutson was head and shoulders better than the competition. In 1942, the next best WR's were Pop Ivy with 27 catches and Ray McLean with 571 yards and 8 TD's.
Rice was an awesome WR, no question but he played in an era when passing was en vogue. And his best season was 22 TD's which is great, but he also had 16 games in which to do it. Hutson had just 11.
Interesting stat also, Hutson started just 60 of 116 career games.
Good luck, KMac.
(KMac) Lame Sauce said 11/21, 11:18 PM
I'm sorry but if Jerry Rice was the only receiver Montana and Young ever threw the ball to, then his stats would be twice what they already are.
Let's look at the build of the 1942 Green Bay Packers. I think that can give us an idea of how that team went about business.
They had two Wide Receivers, back then they were called "Right/Left End". Everybody else on that team was a Tailback/Halfback. Heck their leading passers were TB/HB. This was an era where everybody ran the ball. Passing was an afterthough and receivers were used to block. So when Hutson ran past everybody you came up to get the runner, it was an easy pitch and catch every time.
In 1942, out of the 172 compltetions made by the team, 74 of them went to Hutson. I'm not very good at math, but that's 43% of passing plays according to my calculator.
In 1987 (Rice's 22 TD season), he had 65 receptions of the team's 322 completions. That's good for 20%. (I'll expand next arg)
1942- 17 Touchdowns in 11 Games (+6)
1987- 22 Touchdowns in 16 Games (+6)
There's something similar about that stat DJ. Can you point it out for the audience please?
Out of room. Expect MUCH MUCH more.
DJRoxalot said 11/22, 05:49 AM
The Packers attempted 330 passes in 11 games=30 passes per game.
They ran the ball 422 times, or 38 times a game. Not exactly a bad ratio of passes to run attempts.
The Packers were throwing the ball a lot more than most teams. So while other teams were running the ball a lot more GB was ahead of the game more than other teams.
You can say all the other receivers sucked or you can say Hutson was the first great receiver. I choose to say he was the first great receiver of his time.
Hutson led the NFL in yards 7 of 11 seasons.
He led the NFL in ypg in 8 of 11 seasons.
He led the NFL in TD's in 9 of 11 seasons.
He led the NFL in yards from scrimmage in 3 of 11 seasons.
Rice played when the rules were different and receivers didn't have to worry about pass interference. Hutson played when the rules weren't as refined as they are today.
You want me to point out that Hutson was better in the Red Zone. Ha, sure. Hutson averaged 1.55 TD's per game in 1942, while Rice averaged 1.55.
Hutson was better.
(KMac) Lame Sauce said 11/22, 09:56 PM
"So while other teams were running the ball a lot more GB was ahead of the game more than other teams."
Exactly DJ. Everybody's defense was geared towards stopping the run since that's what the other (9!!) teams were all used to.
"I choose to say he was the first great receiver of his time."
I agree with this statement. I'm not saying Hutson wasn't a great receiver, or that he isn't in the top 10 ever.. just not #1. That belongs to Jerry Rice.
Enough quoting, back to stats.
- In 1987 Jerry rice had 22 TD's in 12 games. Unreal.
- Jerry Rice was a 13x pro bowler
- 10 time first team all pro
- Named the #1 greatest player of ALL TIME by NFL network
- Holds the record for receptions, yards, and touchdowns by a WR
Personally I think Don Hutson's stats are partially skewed. If 43% of your completions were to Rice during the 12 games season in 1987 his stats would be off the charts.
My final point is this. There was more competition, there was better competition, and Jerry Rice was still the best at his position every year. There's no doubt in my mind that Jerry Rice is the greatest of all time.
DJRoxalot said 11/23, 05:57 AM
Hutson's TD record stood from 1942 until Jerry Rice broke it in 1987. It stood for 45 years. Randy Moss broke the record in 2007.
Who was throwing the ball to Hutson during his career? Cecil Isbell and Tony Canadeo. Not exactly household names, huh? TB's. Imagine if Hutson had Montana throwing him the ball. Oh, Rice also played with another HOF QB in Steve Young.
Hutson was more dominant.
Rice led the NFL in yards in 6 of 21 seasons (28.5%). Hutson was 7 of 11 (63.6%).
He led the NFL in ypg in 6 of 21 seasons. Hutson was 8 of 11 (72.7%).
He led the NFL in TD's in 6 of 21 seasons. 9 of 11 (81.8%).
He NEVER led the NFL in yards from scrimmage. 3 of 11 (27.3%).
They were both great at what they did. But, no matter how you look at it, Hutson was the more dominant receiver.
Hutson would have been able to play today. He went both ways and players were tougher in his day. Rice? I am not sure. He was great on offense, but would he have been able to play defense and avoid getting hurt?
Hutson was the Sandy Koufax of his time. More Dominant over a shorter career.
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