Throwdowns > Closed

fvkasm2x said 11/25, 02:16 PM
Last time I checked, players competed with each other IN THE ACTUAL YEAR THEY PLAY and not with other players from years past.

Please explain to me how Hernandez, Greinke and Pedro did this year? Comparing the performance of a winner this year to winners of years past in an attempt to discredit them makes no sense at all.

Some reasons why Verlander won (and valid ones at that):

1. Too much parity if you will, in the sense that no offensive player stood out.

Michael Young had a vote for every "place" from 1-10
Joey Bats had votes 1-9
Robinson Cano had votes 1-7
Jacoby Ellsbury had votes 1-6 and one 10th place vote

The point? None of them stood out more than their offensive peers.

2. Verlander helped his team dominate over the last 2 months of baseball and took his team to the playoffs. Toronto sucked mightily and the BoSox had a monumental collapse. That matters to voters. Winning matters.

For many, part of the criteria of this award is winning. You can't be MVP on a losing team, unless you have a historic season. Joey Bats and Ellsbury didn't do that.

3. Verlander was the best pitcher and fits category 2. I'll give his #'s next

fvkasm2x said 11/25, 07:04 PM
Your debunking of my "myths":

#3: Who cares if he was 4th in all of baseball with his ERA? He was 1st in the AL.

He won the AL MVP, not the MLB MVP. Where he compares against NL pitchers in the ONE stat you brought up is irrelevant.

2. I never said the Tigers wouldn't have made the playoffs without him. You're supposed to argue against me, not the commenters below and/or other internet bloggers/writers. However, Verlander went 16-3 in games following a Tigers loss. It is very easy for a team to fall in a funk and slip out of the race. Ask Boston about losing streaks.

1. Bautista AND Cabrera had 181 OPS+ as you state, which proves my point. They both had great seasons and BOTH had the same OPS. I sad nobody stood out among hitters. Your two examples have the same numbers, so how does either stand out?

Some things to note:

- Peter Abraham of the BOSTON Globe voted Verlander 1st and Ellsbury 2nd. Ken Fidlin of the TORONTO Sun voted Verlander 1st and Joey Bats 2nd. He was good enough to sway the hometown bias there.

- No offensive player recieved more than 5 first place votes. Verlander got 13.

fvkasm2x said 11/27, 10:37 PM
Verlander wasn't good enough? He finished with 280 pts, 38 more than 2nd place.

Look at his AL ranking in the major stats:

Category-Total-Rank

GS - 34 -1st
W - 24 - 1st
WIN% - .828 - 1st
IP - 251 - 1st
H/9IP - 6.239 - 1st
SO - 250 - 1st
ERA - 2.40 - 1st
WHIP - 0.920 - 1st

Ellsbury (a guy you didn't even talk about) finished 2nd in voting with 242 points. He only got four 1st place votes, but Verlander got 13.

He had the most wins since 1990.

He has the 2nd most wins following a loss... a record that goes back to 1972. You really don't think his season was impressive?

He is the 10th pitcher to win the Cy Young and MVP in the same year. Obviously it's been done before, so this isn't some random atrocity to the game.

2 pitchers in the NL finished in the top 12 of MVP voting and that was in a league where 2 guys had superb seasons. Braun didn't get a vote lower than 2nd place. Kemp didn't get one lower than 3rd.

As I said before, the AL had too much parity. The possible winners were getting anywhere from 1st place votes to 6th place votes. In the NL, it was clear. The AL wasn't, which is why Verlander won it. He stood out.