- 12/02/2011, 05:22PM ET
Pimpson said 12/02, 05:22 PM
He has Otto Graham, he of a 86 career passer rating and 55 comp %, #1. Sammy Baugh is #2 with almost 20 more INT's than TD's and a 72 rating.
Steve Young does not even make the top 10 despite his 98 passer rating (#2 all-time), 232-107 TD/INT ratio (almost 100 better than Graham), 33K+ yards, more than both Graham and Baugh, and 4K+ rushing yards and 43 rushing TD's.
Young also has the record for most TD's in a SB. His career numbers dwarf Baugh and Graham despite spending years as a backup to Montana.
King is trying to say Graham and Baugh are the two best QB's ever and Young is not even top ten?
How does this goofball even have a job?
DJRoxalot said 12/02, 06:27 PM
Otto Graham was 105-17-4 as a starting QB for Cleveland.
In 1947, Graham completed 163 passes in 269 attempts, 60.6%, 196.6ypg, 10.2ypa, 16.9 yards per completion, 25 TD's, 11 INT's, with a 109.2 Passer Rating
When he retired, his 86.6 PR was 1 of the best of all time.
He made it to 10 championship games, winning 7 times. He was a winner.
Sammy Baugh was a pioneer. He was the first QB to play the position as it is today. He was instrumental in making the forward pass an effective play, rather than just a desperate measure.
In 1943, Baugh led the League in passing % (55.6), punting (45.9), and interceptions (11). He was a defensive back for 6 years, intercepting 31 passes.
If it wasn't for these pioneering greats, Young never would have had the opportunity to become a QB himself. Young is a borderline top 10 QB. He was a very effective QB, but he also had better talent than Graham and Baugh.
King might not be the best analyst, but his top 10 QB's is not a joke.
Pimpson said 12/02, 07:04 PM
Good season for Graham, now look at Young who, according to King,is not top 10.
He had passer ratings of 120 twice. He had passer ratings of over 100 eight times and
over 90 ten times!
Graham's 25/11 TD/INT season is supposed to put him #1 to you? Young had seasons of 36/12, 35/10 and 25/7. His career TD/INT is 232/107. Graham is at 170's/130's. Baugh is at 187/203.
Graham's 60 comp% from this great season if his is eclipsed by Young 10 times! In fact Young's career comp % is 64!
You say Baugh's work as a punter and DB should qualify him for being a top 10 QB? That doesn't make any sense, my good friend. If we're talking QB position. If we were talking all around player, then you have an argument.
Young's rushing stats come from the same position, QB. That is
more relevant to the position.
And remember I'm not even technically saying Young is better than these two (although he clearly is). I'm saying it's a joke to have two guys 1 and 2 who are so statistically inferior to a guy outside of the ranking. He also has Brady 8th, Marino 9th.
You can't really use the championship argument for Graham because Bradshaw won 4 Superbowls and he's not on.
DJRoxalot said 12/02, 08:14 PM
You do realize Graham and Baugh played in the dark ages of football, right? They didn't have the rules they do nowadays. Pass interference didn't freaking exist. You could mug the effing WR!!! There was no pussification of the League. Baugh played on offense, defense and he was a punter. Iron man football.
Graham played 10 seasons, leading the League in Rating 4 times, completion % 4 times, TD's 3 times, and ypg 5 times.
Baugh played 16 seasons, leading the League in Rating 4 times, completion % 9 times, TD's 2 times, and ypg 6 times.
Steve Young played 15 seasons, leading the League in Rating 6 times, completion % 5 times, TD's 4 times, and ypg 2 times.
It was much easier for Young to throw more TD's and fewer INT's, because there were rules against the DB's raping the WR's.
Bradshaw played 14 seasons. He never led the League in passing ypg. He did lead the League in TD's 2 times and that's pretty much it.
Can't use the championship argument for Graham? Seriously?
7 is greater than 4, my friend.
Pimpson said 12/02, 09:03 PM
Dark ages, huh? So then maybe if they couldn't throw the ball they should have run it. If they were good at that they would have rushing numbers competitive with Steve Young. Unfortunately they don't, not even close.
In fact no one in King's top 10 has rushing numbers anywhere near Young and only one, Montana, has a higher career passer rating. And, as you confess, Young has a record 6 passing titles to go with his 11 other NFL records. Including the most seasons with over a 100 passer rating.
Graham has the third lowest passer rating of all player's on King's list and Baugh has the lowest. Here are some interesting player's with higher career pass ratings than Baugh.
Jeff "Jesus" George
I could be wrong, but don't think that group is too close to any top 10.
As far as using different era's as an excuse, that's a fail too. The average passer rating in the Baugh era is not much lower than the Young era, yet Young's rating is dramatically higher than both Baugh and Graham.
And, again, I'm not even comparing Young to these guys, just showing you the absurdity of King's list.
And I love Sammy Baugh, but he's not #2
DJRoxalot said 12/03, 11:58 AM
"Here are some interesting player's with higher career pass ratings than Baugh.
Jeff "Jesus" George
They also played when PI was called.
My main point with Baugh was he played both ways because players were tougher back in the day. And it was expected. Todays superstars are coddled with the rules changes and they are demanding more money when they are still under their rookie contracts.
Players back in the day played for a love of the game. Not the outlandish money.
Not a big fan of PR or PR+, but the rate+ compares passer rating to the League average
Baugh's PR+ is 122.
Graham's is 127
Carr's is 91
George's is 104
Grbac's is 102
Peete's is 94
Young's is 126.
And again, Baugh and Graham played when they couldn't whine to the officials and get their way. They didn't have challenges and booth reviews.
Baugh and Graham didn't have the talent Young had. Jerry Rice is arguably the best WR ever.
Thanks for the TD, Ruby.
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