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- 12/07/2011, 05:41PM ET
Trent Richardson vs Kellen Moore
PatsFan21 said 12/07, 05:41 PM
I've now heard from three people on here that Kellen Moore is more deserving of being a Heisman finalist than Trent Richardson.
I say that's stupid.
Did Moore have a great season? Absolutely.
Moore has great stats, there is no denying that. But let's look at those opponents:
He had 5 TD games against Toledo and UNLV, both in the bottom 20 pass defense and bottom 30 in scoring defense.
He had a 4 TD game against Tulsa, the 4th worst passing defense in Division 1.
What happened when he faced a mediocre pass defense at home against Nevada? He threw 2 picks to just 2 TDs.
I'm not knocking Moore, I'm saying it's clear his stats are inflated by playing terrible defenses.
Richardson played in the toughest defensive conference in the NCAA and dominated it.
After playing hurt early in the season, against Kent State albeit (he scored 3 TDs), Richardson took over the SEC. He had only 2 games of under 100 yards from there on out. Against his team's biggest rival, he ran for 200 yards, and ran all over good defenses like Florida and Penn State.
He finished the season in the top 5 in yards per game and TDs.
TR is more deserving.
Rudedog: Thankful said 12/07, 11:25 PM
It's as cliche as you can get in college football: the SEC gets all the pub and the non-BCS schools get none. But it's pretty true. For example, let's take a closer look at Trent Richardson's schedule.
His schedule in general wasn't exactly tough. Here's a breakdown of how many rush yards his opponents gave up per game, followed by how many yards Richardson got that game.
Kent St - 128.3 / 37
Penn St. - 138.8 / 111
North Tx. - 163.5 / 167
Arkansas - 107.7 / 126
Florida - 132.3 / 181
Vandy - 123.0 / 107
Ole Miss - 224.9 / 183
Tenn - 162.7 / 77
LSU - 85.5 /89
Miss. St. - 161.0 /127
GA Southern - 143.1 / 175
Auburn - 194.8 / 203
As you can see, Trent's schedule played right into his hands. If you average out the defenses he faced this year, they gave up 147.2 yards a game. Trent averaged just 131.9. The award goes to an extraordinary performer, and Trent wasn't necessarily that extraordinary this season, at least compared to Kellen Moore.
And I'll talk about Kellen next argument.
PatsFan21 said 12/08, 11:25 AM
Comparing Richardson's averages to that of a whole team's average? Really?
Plus, leave out all purpose yards?
One of the things that make Richardson better than other candidates is that he can run and catch the ball out of the backfield.
Richardson put up huge numbers in big games, and still managed 90 yards against LSU, and he had 80 receiving yards. 170 yards against LSU is great.
Richardson carried this Alabama team all season to a 11-1 record. Moore did the same but in MWC. I understand that he beat Georgia, but he only threw for 260 yards in the game.
How can you say Richardson is not an extraordinary performer when he averaged 160 total yards per game? He scored 20 touchdowns in the SEC. He was clearly the 2nd best running back in the NCAA this year.
Moore had a great season but he took advantage of bad defenses. When facing off against his toughest competition, he wasn't as good (ie 2 picks against an average Nevada D).
It's tough to knock on Moore for losing to TCU, but he did. He couldn't lead his team back against TCU. Is it all his fault? No, but unfortunately team records do go into the decision.
Rudedog: Thankful said 12/08, 02:16 PM
I don't do this often, but this part stuck out to me...
"Moore had a great season but he took advantage of bad defenses"
Now, honestly, what do you call the defenses Richardson faced? I just showed you the stats and only two teams gave up an average of less than 120 yards. Plain and simple, those aren't good defenses.
In fact, Alabama's schedule is quite bloated and overrated. Take a look at this website's strength of schedule rankings. Alabama is 34th, Boise is 51st. Not that big a difference.
As for Moore, let's look closely at his stats...
3507 yards, 41 TDs, 7 INTS, 74.1% comp, 176.8 QB rating
Those numbers put him 13th in yards, 2nd in TDs, 4th in QB Rating, and 2nd in completion percentage.
You say he struggled against good teams? Yeah because the 261 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, and 82.4% comp against Georgia was bad. You can say he struggled against Nevada, but they won by 20.
So it comes down to who played better against their weak schedule, and I'd give that to Moore. He was consistently great the entire season, but is simply being overlooked.
PatsFan21 said 12/09, 01:39 PM
I call the defenses Richardson faced SEC defenses, they have a clear advantage over MWC defenses. You know that Rude.
Moore did well against Georgia but 261 yards puts him right about on par with that of the mighty John Brantley of Florida. Not so impressive anymore.
Boise won by 20 at home against Nevada because Doug Martin averaged 6 yards a carry and had 2 touchdowns on the ground. Moore's two picks almost brought Nevada back in the game, but Boise's D limited Nevada to just 182 yards of total offense. Moore was the team's biggest drag that day. Heisman QBs don't throw for just 142 yards at home against Nevada and throw 2 key picks.
How is Richardson schedule weak? What is weak about 170 yards against the best defense in the country?
Richardson racked up 170 yards against the best defense in the country.
Running backs averaged 3 yards a touch against LSU. Richardson averaged 6 yards per touch.
He eclipsed the 100 yard mark NINE times.
He broke the 160 yard mark FIVE times.
That is pure dominance of the best conference in college football.
Moore did very well against the WAC, but Richardson dominated the best of the best.
Rudedog: Thankful said 01/13, 02:09 PM
Woah. Didn't know this was still up. My bad everyone
Kellen Moore finished the year with 3800 yards and 43 TDs with just 9 INTs. I realize it isn't a career award, but Moore deserved to be there his senior year.
While Richardson was good, Moore was better.
HE FINISHED 50-3 AS A COLLEGE QB. How much more dominant do you want?
His wins this year?
14 over UGA
25 over Toledo
20 over Tulsa
20 over Nevada
50 over Fresno State
50 over Colorado State
11 over Air Force
27 over UNLV
17 over San Diego State
22 over Wyoming
45 over New Mexico
32 over Arizona State
All that adds up to an average margin of victor of 27.75 points a game. Mind boggling. Need more stats? What about at least 30 points every game, at least 40 in eight games, 50+ points in four games, and they hung 63 points on Colorado State.
Moore's resume, when you break it down, is as impressive as anyone else in college football and more impressive than Trent Richardson's. He deserved to be in New York.
Part of it has to do with ESPN's SEC love, also. More media = more votes.
Again, I apologize for this still being around
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Comments (53) Add A Comment
It's not a knock on Moore, but if we're gonna take a non AQ QB this season, it would have to be the Case Keenum.
Outlaw...
Ball Ground, GA
Total Comments (39772)
Moore rarely played much in the 4th Qtr. Coach Peterson doesn't like to run up the score with his starters.
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20055)
I thought the original argument I saw was Moore vs Barkley replacing Mathieu. I must have missed the Richardson thing...
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20055)
Not saying Keenum is a better QB than Moore, just saying I would rank him higher in the Heisman polls. Again, not a knock on Moore.
Outlaw...
Ball Ground, GA
Total Comments (39772)
I agree.
PatsFan21
Total Comments (1467)
Too late!
W_A_M_U?
Total Comments (64481)
So rudes argument is because one person didn't average or get more yards against each one of these teams what all the running backs together got against these teams that he didn'thave an outstanding season.
wildbill21475
Total Comments (831)
For me personally I handicap a QB like Keenum\Weedon\Jones because they throw the damn ball 50-60 times a game. So it doesn't say who the better QB is based on just numbers. Its like back in the day when Andre Ware and then David Klingler were running the run and shoot offense. Yes they put up stupid numbers but just about any QB could throw the ball 50-60 times a game and have 4 or 5 hundred yards.
wildbill21475
Total Comments (831)
There were two parts to it
1. Show how bad the defenses he played were
2. Showed that he didn't necessarily play better than the defenses allowed. He faced easy schedules and only a couple times got more than what they averaged
Rudedog: Thankful
Total Comments (27520)
montee ball was a better back then richardson this see but of course richardson is in the SEC so hes goin to get more heisman votes... CFB is way too bias for the SEC...just like Alabama getting in the BCS championship, they played alot weaker schedule then OK ST, yet since they are from the SEC they got the nod over them
aeballa6
Glen Allen , VA
Total Comments (27)
if Richardson was on any other team he wouldnt even have been invited to NY
aeballa6
Glen Allen , VA
Total Comments (27)
And every team new it was run first, second, than think about passing on third down.
XMOFO
Total Comments (164)
As the arguments go, Okie St doesn't get to play in the NCG because they lost to Iowa St....ergo, Trent Richardson shouldn't win the Heisman because he had 37 yds against Kent State!
TZ man
Total Comments (1991)
or another team without back ups, Eddie Lacy, that can start at 95% of the other schools in NCAA, would have used trent a whole lot more than Bama
ever noticed a bad team has a qb with huge passing yards. b/c they are always behind and defense is playing prevent.
trent was a target from game one with a first year qb and your recievers.
RGIII should win the trophy but trent richardson played really good.
Crimson02
Total Comments (448)
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