- 12/19/2011, 04:51PM ET
BatmansBFF said 12/19, 04:51 PM
I have a feeling a lot of people won't agree with me here but whatever, I'm right. A few years ago everyone would have agreed with me but then everyone jumped on the Hawks bandwagon and Toews became better than everyone but Crosby in their twisted minds.
25 years old.
won the 2007 Calder (rookie of the year)
2008 and 2009 runner up for the Hart (MVP)
2009 Stanley Cup Winner (his team made it to the 2008 SCF also), also won Conn Smythe (MVP of the playoffs) in 2009.
1.17 PPG for his play-off career, 1.20 for the regular season in his career.
23 years old.
2010 gold medal winner (but lets be honest that team was so stacked and would have easily won with or without him)
2010 stanley cup winner, also won the Conn Smythe that year (Duncan Keith should have won it but thats just my opinion)
nominated for the Calder in 2008, did not win
his play-off PPG is 1.00, and regular season is .90
Malkin's ability to score is what makes him go past Toews. Also Malkin is a center, who until he had James Neal this year, and has always had to score with lousy wingers. But Toews? He's been on a line with Patrick Kane the majority of his career.
OJ Simpson said 12/19, 05:29 PM
You aren't right.
Malkin is a better pure scorer/offensive player than Toews. However, Toews is better that Malkin in every other aspect of the game.
Defense: This isn't even close. Toews is a defensive forward. He was recognized for his amazing backchecking ability and all around game with his Selke nomination last year.
Faceoffs: Again, no comparision. Toews won the most draws last year for 1st place (937) and with a 56.7% success rate. The year before, he was 6th place with 57.3%
Last year Malkin won only 38.5% of his draws and the year before that, he only won 40% of the faceoffs he took.
He's flat out terrible.
Let's also look at Blocks, Giveaways and Takeaways. I'll skip last year, since Malkin was hurt.
Toews: 33 blocks, 24 turnovers, 69 takes.
Malkin: 25 blocks, 51 turnovers, 56 takes.
So you can see, Malkin doesn't block as many shots, doesn't steal the puck often and makes a lot of bad choices with it.
As for the Olympic thing you mentioned: Toews was widely considered the best player on the entire team. Yes, a stacked team. So Toews outshone all the stars on that team.
BatmansBFF said 12/19, 07:07 PM
Malkin actually has a very underrated defensive set. He can get takeaways, I believe in '09 he lead the league in takeaways, with just a few more than Pavel Datsyuk.
Also Malkin doesn't get a chance to show his defense because he plays on Jordan Staal's team. Jordan Staal is a top 5 forward when it comes to pure defense, and the PK also has Matt Cooke and Craig Adams, who are great PKers.
I'll admit he isn't great at face-offs but he is improving (he's at 44% this year, which isn't great but when you have all the other aspects of Malkin's game it's not that big a deal). I guess he'll be about 50-50 guy next year in the FO circle cause he is clearly trying to improve.
His giveaways are because of those lousy linemates I mentioned earlier, its a bit easier to pass to Patrick Kane than any of the wingers they've lined up with Malkin prior to this year.
So Malkin isn't "flat out terrible" defensively as you say, he actually isn't bad and is OUTSTANDING offensively.
Also the Olympics was an extremely small sample size. He only played 7 games, so I can't see you really using that to your advantage.
OJ Simpson said 12/20, 03:23 PM
So we can't judge Malkin because he plays with "elite" defensive players like Cooke and Adams, but we are supposed to hold it against Toews that he plays with Kane?
Malkin doesn't get PK time because he can't win faceoffs. Winning draws in your own end is one of the most important aspect of penalty killing. THAT is why he doesn't get on the ice. Because he can't win faceoffs.
Speaking of faceoffs, I said he was "flat out terrible" in that regard, not defensively. Please don't put words in my mouth. Or learn to read.
Durability: Malkin has missed time each of the last 3 seasons with injury. Toews has yet to be injured in his NHL career.
Leadership: Pros can make a career out of being a good leader, with other limited skill sets. Look at Mark Messier for the last 5+ years of his career. Look at MLB and Jason Veritech. Then you look at a KID like Toews, who is already credited with great leadership skills and it's just another notch on his resume.
Malkin has been labeled quiet, passive and not a leader. You need someone with fire in their belly and some grit.
Toews is a complete player.
BatmansBFF said 12/20, 04:51 PM
It's spelled Jason Varitek, so how about your learn to spell.
Now that that is out of the way- Malkin doesn't play with Cooke and Adams they are on his team- and they get to log more defensive minutes. Kane is on the ice WITH Toews, and helps Toews complete more passes, and get more assists on goals Kane scores-- thats just straight up true.
Also Malkin doesn't need to be a leader, they've got Crosby-a better leader than Toews- so let Malkin do his thing. Besides half his team doesn't even speak his langauge, don't blame the guy if he hasn't become a leader, cause Malkin does everything he has to on the ice!
Malkin's injuries are actually a testament to how good he is. He plays through some of them and still averages over 1 PPG. Also he had a torn MCL/ACL, that not like a recurring bad knee.
Why don't you address Toews' career PPG, which is under 1? A top 5 player in the game, which Malkin is and Toews isn't, averages more than 1 point a game (or at least 1 ppg). Don't try to tell me faceoffs are more important than points. And those points he got playing with crap players, not Kane (he might play with Sharp/Hossa too?)
OJ Simpson said 12/21, 01:48 PM
So u acknowledge all of my points? You haven't contradicted any of them.
Toews is better than Malkin at:
Malkin is better at:
My last 2 pieces of info: Toews is penalized half as much and his +/- rating is light years ahead of Malkins.
Here is a little tidbit of info for you. Did you know that in the last 2 years Malkin was a minus player?
-4 and -6 were his ratings. This year he is only +5, even though he has 39 points.
Toews has 36 points and is +11
His +/- over the past 2 years? +47
So if your guy scores more, but is a minus player and my guy scores a bit less but is 57 points higher than yours, what does that mean?
Sure looks like that it's a bad tradeoff for a bit more offense.
Also, Malkin averaged around 83 PIMS a year. That's quite a bit for a star player. You don't want your best players in the box, u want them on the ice. Toews average? Only 42. Dumb penalites costs Malkins team power play chances TWICE as much as Toews.
That makes 6 categories for Toews and 1 for Malkin. Toews is the better and complete player.
- Awful Announcing
- Free Darko
- Pro Football Talk
- The Big Lead
- Joe Posnanski
- The Sporting Blog
- Big League Stew
- Bugs and Cranks
- Every day Should Be Saturday
- Mr. Irrelevant
- With Leather
- The Sports Hernia