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- 01/20/2012, 03:05PM ET
Douglas Maicon is a better right back than Dani Alves.
J11: RIP said 01/20, 03:05 PM
Now, to be clear, two years ago this wouldn???t even be a question. I???m not going to deny that Maicon has lost a step or two in the past year. I still say he???s a better right back than Dani Alves.
Of course, we???re talking about the top two right backs in the world and their both Brazilian, but what else is new?
Reasons I give it to Maicon:
He???s better ??? much better I would say ??? defensively than Alves. And the number one priority of a right back is defense.
He???s more physical than Alves. Alves may be faster, but Maicon is a beast and beat you with both speed and strength.
His tactical understanding of the game is superior to Alves. He???s almost never out of position.
Yes. Alves is probably better offensively. His speed allows him to bomb down the flank better than Maicon, he can cross better, and he can dribble better. But Maicon still contributes offensively and can score some amazing goals.
I say Maicon is a better right back than Dani Alves, though I acknowledge it's close.
R-Dog said 01/20, 03:21 PM
Ok, so for my first argument - as you have already hinted at - I will show that Alves is the offensive player.
Here are some quick stats on these two:
This year, League
Player A: 0 goal, 7 assists
Player B: 1 goal, 4 assists
Last year, League
Player A: 2 goals, 15 assists
Player B: 1 goal, 8 assists
all club competitions 2010 - 2012
Player A: 4 goals, 30 assists
Player B: 4 goals, 16 assists
When you are getting about 15 assists per year (league only) you are going to be among the top 10 in assists in the league; Daniboy is current 3rd in la Liga.
I would like to know where you see that Dani Alves is defensively deficient. Their team stats certainly wouldn't show it:
Barca: 9 goals conceded
Inter: 19 goals conceded (same number of games)
I know you're telling me Maicon is better defensively, but is there anything that you can point to which would prove it? I think no.
J11: RIP said 01/20, 03:54 PM
Dani Alves does not need to contribute defensively because Barca already has Puyol and Pique at centerback and a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, and Iniesta. Barca's total of goals conceded has more to do with passenaccio than Alves' talents as a right back.
Maicon plays on a team that currently has about half the talent of Barcelona and the Tinkerman as a coach - that speaks for itself.
In essence, Dani Alves is a system right back. He excels in Barca's system because his defensive inadequacies are covered up by the rest of the team and Barca needs him more as a ride sided midfielder adding width to their attack than as someone who plays defense.
On other teams - such as Brazil -his defensive abilities get exposed. In fact at the 2011 Copa America, Alves was named the starter based on his play at Barcelona but was replaced after two games by Maicon for just this reason.
Soccer statistics are weak in this area, but my eyes tell me everything I need to know about Maicon being better defensively than Alves.
R-Dog said 01/20, 04:13 PM
OK, gotcha, so you personally think that Maicon is the better defensive player. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't; though you certainly haven't proven it. And certainly this wouldn't speak to the overall ability of both.
But one wonders if Maicon is overly rough as a defender - much in the same way Pepe is. Is he a card liability perhaps?
Maicon: 10 league games played, 3 yellow cards
Dani Alves: 17 games played, 2 yellow cards.
But let's talk recognition and achievement. I won't mention the additional titles that Dani Alves has because those really are team achievements. But UEFA conveniently has a Team of The Year. Their most current selection was for Dani Alves, who was selected for a third time. Maicon has featured for this prolific team only once (or as many times as Gianluca Zambrotta).
Also, Dani Alves is much more durable than Maicon.
Here are how many games each has missed from league play since the beggining of the 2010 campaign:
Maicon: 18 league games missed
Alves: 4 games missed
Also, it should be noted that this would be skewed to Maicon's favor. Since Barca are involved in more tournaments for longer, Dani Alves would be more likely to get rested
J11: RIP said 01/20, 04:28 PM
A good defender will naturally accumulate some yellow cards. One who makes very literal effort to play defense will avoid fouls by rarely attempting to make tackles. Alves is more likely to get his yellows for diving.
I have proven that Maicon is a better defender using ancedotal evidence. Your argument amounts to Alves plays for the better team therefore he is a better defender. That does not fly.
Maicon was injured for a period of time in 2011. This does not by itself make Alves a better right back.
Alves plays well for one team. He looks good because of the specific system used by Barcelona. On any other team, we'd be discussing him as a player that needs to be transferred from right back to right wing. Except that's already happens several times for Brazil.
Of course, every time Alves is given the starting spot for Brazil due to his play with Barca, he loses it back to Maicon in a matter of games.
I think I'll trust the actual coaches needing wins above a bunch of UEFA journalists overwowed by offensive ability and never get defensive calls right.
R-Dog said 01/20, 04:44 PM
Proved by anecdotal evidence? What non-UN country do you live in?
The best defender in the world Thiago Silva (as recognized by both of us) has accumulated 1 yellow card in all competitions in the 2011-present campaign. So your point about yellow cards being a positive sign for Maicon is questionable at best.
Even aside from the UEFA team of the year selection, in the Ballon D'or Voting, Dani Alves received 4 votes. Maicon and I were tied with 0.
You have used 0 numbers in your arguments. I have proven conclusively using cold hard statistics that Dani Alves is
- a better attacker
- more durable
- more internationally acknowledge
- and contributes to a better defense
How is it that Maicon is better?
If all evidence points to Dani Alves being the more effective player it's ridiculous to excuse Maicon in all aspects. Here is your argument in a nutshell:
- Better offense? Doesn't matter
- Voted to an allstar team? Voters are idiots
- Better defensive numbers? Better teammates
- Plays less? Doesn't matter, he was injured, which doesn't matter
Here is the master defender Maicon:
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Comments (149) Add A Comment
It's going to be a really hard vote. Left copied all of his info from Wikipedia and Right is a notorious dupe. Choices....
Bayern
Total Comments (13141)
One thing I've already learned from the TD is that Maicon's first name is Douglas. I honestly thought he only had one name. Like a Madonna.
Bayern
Total Comments (13141)
It's been alleged he was named after Michael Douglas. I think it is National Enquirer type rumor.
Freak Show
Total Comments (2285)
He actually has 3 names, Douglas Sisenando Maicon
CU Tiger
Washington, DC
Total Comments (8773)
I will hold my vote until I hear from MED....
Hudson St
Azteca Of The North, OH
Total Comments (5064)
It should be noted Inter has kept their 3rd straight clean sheet, and RDog cant really expect to put team goals conceded on one player?
CU Tiger
Washington, DC
Total Comments (8773)
I had a cat named Sisenando once.
Bayern
Total Comments (13141)
You are right; they cannot be. But if Dani Alves was defensive liability, then it MAY show up in team stats. But it does not appear to as far as I can tell.
R-Dog
Arlington, VA
Total Comments (5171)
Yeah boiii I see we are conversing on here now sweeet.
R-Dog
Arlington, VA
Total Comments (5171)
That's a poor statistical view. Unless you watch the games and can prove who was at fault for each goal conceded, net goals against has to be viewed as a team stat, midfield and keeper included.
CU Tiger
Washington, DC
Total Comments (8773)
My point essentially is that other than "you just have to watch them", there is not much proof that Maicon is better defensively than Alves. At least not yet, we'll see what J11 puts up.
R-Dog
Arlington, VA
Total Comments (5171)
Kinda like Michael Keaton.... had to go by another name.
LetsPlay2
Alexandria, VA
Total Comments (10615)
Well, if J11 wants to open the door that Maicon is defensively superior....
Does that mean that Zanetti is defensively inferior?!?!?!?
LetsPlay2
Alexandria, VA
Total Comments (10615)
You already know that CU Tiger is voting for Maicon, so let it go. You have to be calm.
Bayern
Total Comments (13141)
By the way, maybe Marco Reus is the best player in the world. BM is destroying Bayern.
Bayern
Total Comments (13141)
Team in decline?
Is he the one going to Dortmund?
LetsPlay2
Alexandria, VA
Total Comments (10615)
So are we bailing on today's normal programming for a TD? And if so, double splatter?
TLVG
Total Comments (11593)
When I was really into watching MBradley I would get to see Reus a bunch. I liked him because my Catalan roommate in spain was from a town called Reus. You could certainly tell he had skill.
R-Dog
Arlington, VA
Total Comments (5171)
You already voted for J11 after one argument? You're a **** ****, you really are.
Bayern
Total Comments (13141)
It is complicated, it's natural.
R-Dog
Arlington, VA
Total Comments (5171)
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