- 01/29/2012, 10:39PM ET
IRB - Hawks are back! said 01/30, 02:51 PM
1) Johan Franzen - +25 +/-, 9 GWG, 22 Bks, only 34 PIM, 19 G, 22 A
He has the highest +/- of anyonr on either of our lists, and one of the highest in the league. this is an INCREDIBLY important stat. Neal's +/- is only +5. Franzen has been far more valuable to his team.
2) Daniel Sedin - +15 +/-, 4 GWG, only 13 Bks, only 36 PIM, 21 G, 30 A
His +/- is pedestrian, but still lands in the top half of the league. He has scored a lot of goals, and racked up a lot of assists. I like him here because he stays on the Ice (low PIM) and helps his team offensivley.
3) Scott Hartnell - +18 +/-, 4 GWG, 21 Bks, 71 PIM, 25 G, 19 A
Great +/-. high Bks, good G and A numbers. I do not like his PIM, which is why he is below Sedin.
Neal - +5 +/-, 3 GWG, 10 Bks, 58 PIM, 27 G, 20 A
he is probably #4 or 5 on my list, still very high up there mind you. But his low +/- stat, combined with the fact that he is not blocking shots, and spending more time in the box than these 3 guys, forces him down. he has the flashy Goal numbers, but is not playing a complete game.
MorningWoodley said 01/30, 05:46 PM
Neal's stats are too good for him not to be in the top 3! 27 goals is the most out of all the LW in the NHL. You talk about how he does not block shots. He only has 3 less blocks than Daniel Sedin and has more goals than Sedin does. Also, Hartnell has a lot more PIM than Neal does so if that is such a big deal than Neal should be ahead of him, like he is on my list. I think +/- is overrated because that is not completely Neal's fault. It's a team effort so the fact that he is positive should be good enough to keep him on this list with such nice scoring numbers.
You pick Franzen because he has a lot of blocks and a high +/-. Notice that Franzen was not on the all star roster. You know who was? JAMES NEAL!!! and everyone else on my list. You can't put the guy in the top 3 if he doesn't even make the all star game. He would be the only one on this list without 20+ goals.
Clearly scoring goals is the most important category and that is why James Neal should be on it. The fact that Franzen didn't even make the all star game shows that he is not good enough to be on this list!
IRB - Hawks are back! said 01/31, 10:22 AM
Not being in the all-star game has nothing to do with it. All-star voting is a crock of **** and we all know it.
Lets do a cross sport reference to basketball. If scoring was all that mattered, Allen iverson would be a first ballot hall-of-famer. and yet everyone can see what he really is, a one trick pony, he can score, thats it.
Sedin vs Neal (as you stated in your first paragraph): yes Sedin only has 3 more Bks, but he also has siginificantly higher +/-, fewer PIM, an extra GWG and 10 more assists. He is trailing Neal in only one category, Goals.
Let me point something out to you, for folks who say that +/- cannot refelect and individuals performance.
Franzens +/- is +25. his font line mates numbers are far lower, Filppula (+12) and Huddler (+3). To me, this illustrates that it is Franzen making the difference. When he pays with other lines, his numbers must stay up, and when he is not in with his linemates, their numbers must drop. It doesnt matter who he is on the ice with, he is putting his team ahead.
You can go on and on about Neals goals, but the truth is he is not far ahead of anyone on this list, and he is last in EVERY other stat mentioned save PIM
MorningWoodley said 02/01, 02:05 PM
Are you stupid? "and he is last in EVERY other stat mentioned save PIM" he has more assists then Hartnell! 20>19. ****!!!!
Allen Iverson can score but he can't score like Kobe or Jordan or Chamberlin so no... he shouldn't be a first ballot hall-of-famer. He also had problems off the court that contributed to that. So that argument doesn't relate here at all.
I have a question for you? Whats the most important thing to do in hockey? SCORE GOALS!!! Thats how you win games. Neal is a better scorer than Franzen and thats why Neal is on the list and Franzen isnt!
IRB - Hawks are back! said 02/01, 03:57 PM
no reason for personal attacks just because your steelers are out of the playoffs. I missed a single stat by 1...chill.
Iverson can score, which is all Neal seems to be doing. Iverson was actually a decent defender as well, he was just selfish as all get out.
The most important thing in hockey is not to score goals, its to win the win the game. and while you do need to score to win, you also need to prevent the other team from scoring to win. If all you can do is score, you will not win.
+/- is the best indicator of why a complete game is important. While your choice Neal does have the most goals on this list, his +/- is the lowest. This shows (along with the rest of his stats) that he is not playing a complete game.
Open your ****ing eyes and read a book you lemming. If you are going to go onto the internet and let simple stats or a sports writer who the best is, then you shouldnt even be allowed to talk about sports. Form your own oppinions, look outside the cookie cutter stats that the masses use and look deeper.
When you look at the whole picture, Franzen is the most complete LW through the first half, and Neal is 4th.
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