- 02/02/2012, 10:28PM ET
KqWIN said 02/02, 10:28 PM
Whenever someone takes a charge today, it's referred to as a hustle play, bravely giving up their body to help the team. Many guys practically make a living out of this call. I fully understand and respect the effort, positioning, and timing required as well as the beating guys like Nick Collision take every night. Having said that, charges do more harm to a basketball game than good. Whenever I see a guy take a charge, I feel like he's not even playing defense.
You hear it all the time, the center is a dying breed. This is because today's big men don't even product the basket! Back in the Jordan era, defense was physical, if you went to the rim, you were getting hit. Were you going to get a call, maybe. These old school guys would protect the hoop, not just a spot in front. They brought it among themselves to protect the paint. That's defense!
It pains me to see guys like Perkins and Big Baby simply fall over at will. During the majority of charge fouls, the defender CHOOSES to fall instead of holding his ground. If you call that defense, you never played ball. It's not basketball to simply fall over and wait for a call.
:CubanMissile: said 02/02, 11:21 PM
Why do people pretend that flopping is just a current issue and that the old days had no problems?
Red Auerbach talked about it long before many of the guys in todays league had even been born. Is flopping an issue, sure: but let's not act flopping is solely a charging issue. You act like charges are a problem, but they are the one thing that gives the defenses some power today when most rules favor the offense. How many times to we see guys contort their body or lean into a defender to sell being fouled? It's not just defenses flopping, if anything it happens on offense more
Charges when called correctly are great. It allows the defender to stand ground and effect the opponent without fearing a foul call. Nobody is going to say flopping is good for basketball, but giving the defender a right to space on the floor as charges do is good for the game. Sometimes a ref may make a call when they should swallow their whistle, but that happens on more then just charges.
KqWIN said 02/03, 05:18 PM
Flopping is present in every sport, any time period. However, you cannot deny that players in today's game flop to get a charge and often get that call. It's just wrong that falling over is a more effective tactic than contesting shots at the rim.
"Charges when called correctly are great."
By definition, in both plays the ref made the correct call. How can you say that is good for the NBA? You can't say that Wallace and Gortat outplayed Evans and Griffen. I think everyone can agree that's not D, that's just weak.
"It allows the defender to STAND ground and effect the opponent without fearing a foul call."
Stand? I realize that fouls currently favor offense. I also hope that the NBA is smart enough that if they altered the charge call, they would give defense something back.
Look at that D! Hanchecking, no calls for contact created by the attacker, and physical play should be substituted for the charge call. Less fouls called means more entertaining basketball.
:CubanMissile: said 02/04, 01:48 PM
I can say that Gortat and Wallace outplayed Griffin and Evans. No doubt Griffin and Evans made the more athletic and entertaining play, but what separates an And1 game from the NBA is basketball IQ which the defenders show. If defenses aren't allowed the right to a spot on the floor and offense don't have to worry about charges the game becomes more out of control. Just look at the size of guys like LeBron, how do you stop that coming full speed if you can't take a charge?
Yes i said stand ground, and you seem to imply me saying stand means its doesn't require effort. Unlike hand checking you need to actually be in position and anticipate moves. Its not hard to play defense back in the day when you could basically attack a player. It was also way more subjective as far as what was just physical play and what was a foul.
It takes much more thought, hand eye coordination, and teamwork to play defense today. Take away the charge and your basically watching the all star game where can't even try to stop the opponent. Removing the charges doesn't do anything to stop flopping, it just gives the offense all the power.
KqWIN said 02/04, 02:51 PM
You act as if it easy to score on big guys. Contrary to popular belief , LeBron cannot dunk on everyone, every single time.The argument that 1 player is too good at finishing is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. What is the excuse for centers taking charges on someone like Allen Iverson? When centers hit the deck as a guard attacks the rim, it is one of the hardest thing to watch in sports for me.
Falling is more effective then contesting shots. You can't see the flaw in that? It's not as if your taking a defenders right to a position on the floor, your just taking away the reward for choosing to fall over. On the two previous plays, those are the isolated incidents when the offensive player made an exceptional play and finished over someone with position. It should be a no call, no one commited a foul.
I'm implying that charges aren't standing ground, standing ground IMO would be to continue standing and contest the shot.
Big Baby D is just effective as Bill Lambier D, which is better for basketball?
:CubanMissile: said 02/05, 01:35 PM
You act like the game has become hard to watch, well it seems plenty disagree with you. After giant rating gains last year, the NBA has continued the trend and set rating records this year.
I'm sorry that it sickens you that a center takes a charge on AI, but its a foul and rightly so. They may embellish it to your disliking, but the foul needs to be called consistently. IF AI takes a charge vs a big guy its easy for the refs and fans to notice the contact; when contact happens against a big guy they may be able to take the force but its still a charge so they may embellish to make it easier to notice but it was still a foul.
Your totally taking away the defenders right to any spot on the floor when the charge is gone. Your saying the offense player can run over the defender at any point. No LeBron may not be able to dunk on everyone; but the 700+ pounds of force he generates (per sports science) can certainly knock anyone over.
By rule the defensive player must allow the O time to stop or change direction. Sometimes you might not like how its called and it may be called incorrect, but that happens with every rule and every sport.
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