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  • 03/05/2012, 02:56PM ET

Should Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis be fired?

baron. (28-12-2) vs OlderthanDirt (88-37-13)
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Absolutely.

By now most have heard the Saints had implemented a "bounty system" to encourage hurting players of opposing teams. While Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis didn't directly contribute in funding to the system they also never tried to stop it.

Saints general manager Mickey Loomis failed to stop the bounty program when directed to do so by team owner Tom Benson, while Payton was aware of the allegations but did not pursue them or take steps to stop the "bounty" program, according to the investigation's findings.

http://tinyurl.com/7ftgalx

With the NFL cracking down on hard and illegal hits (thanks to what we now know about concussions) turning a blind eye to this is just completely stupid. By not saying anything or even looking into the matter they condoned these actions...they were alright with taking another persons livelihood.

I think all NFL fans have had suspicions of this kind of activity, but maybe not to this extent. Where 20+ players are involved and the payout was over $50,000 during their championship run. Kind of ridiculous.

Even more ridiculous is allowing it to happen. Fire them.


No, they should not be fired. Fined? Okay, I don't have a problem with them having to choke up a few grand into the Disabled Retirement Fund or whatever other organization the Comish sees fit, just NOT into the owners pockets.

Everyone's initial reaction seems to be way over the top on this one. And you have to remember this, a $1000 or $1500 bounty does not even come close to the typical $25,000 fine for illegal hits so the bounty program in itself was regulated.

A thousand or fifteen hundred dollar bounty is a drop in the bucket to most of these guys and it was done as much of a motivator as it was an actual rewards program for head hunting.

Is it any different if an OC puts up a reward for a PANCAKE block that leads to a scoring play? NO!

Colleges have a rewards program at just about every university of some type. Most of these are seen as little emblems or stickers plastered all over their helmets.

You make a big hit that forces a fumble, you get a tomahawk or razorback (whatever the flavor of the team is). You PANCAKE an opponent you get a football.

In the NFL money is what motivates the players and NO ONE is out to KILL an opponent over a thousand dollars


Mickey Loomis lied.

He lied to the NFL.

He lied to his boss Tom Benson, and as the NFL report put it "did not follow Mr. Benson's direction" in regards to shutting down the bounty system. When your boss tells you to do something it better get done. He should be toast.

No, this isn't an overreaction.

The players involved were becoming nothing but "hired hitmen", and the act they took part in could be looked at as criminal. They weren't getting paid to make "big time football plays" but to injure other players.

http://tinyurl.com/7orleen

$1,500 for a cartoff
$1,000 for a knockout
$10,000 for Brett Favre's actual head

That's not the same as getting a sticker for making a play.

Sean Payton has denied taking part, but hasn't denied having knowledge of it. It's hard to believe a guy so involved in everything the organization does, didn't know about this. It becomes more suspicious when a guy named, Mike Ornstein (a convicted felon and regular on the Saints sidelines), sends an email to Payton outlining the bounty system.

Oops. You're fired.


Today's society automatically has knee jerk reactions over things of this nature because it is no longer politically correct to openly admit you are trying to take someone's head off in a football game.

I would not want anyone playing defense for me if they are NOT out to rip some ****. And whatever manner my DC uses to motivate players short of anything illegal is okay. Now, that $1500 for a cartoff or $1000 for a knockout may seem a bit extreme to those who are squeamish but with all the new NFL rules on hits and tackling the Defense is down to forcing guys out of bounds. Even when a player makes a great move to get to the QB and has a clean shot at him he is supposed to pull up and not hurt the guy. Maybe it is like Jack Lambert stated in his interview, its time to put dresses on the QBs.

The only thing bad about this coming out now is that it is a direct slap to the face of Goodell and his Clean Hits Campaign.

Everyone and his brother knows he has targeted the big hits for the past 4 seasons and this only shows that the coaches, players and execs don't really care for his pussification of their great game.

No way these two should lose their jobs over this. MTC


pussification of their great game

This is what's wrong.

There's no "pussification". We know the long lasting effects of a concussion, and the NFL now knows with over 30 cases involving more than 700 players, including Duerson's wrongful death suit, being filed against them.

Allowing players to intentionally hurt each other could be the end of football. The worst part is it's not just a secret between players anymore, but spreading into the coaches and front office.

This has nothing to do with hard hits and violence which we've accepted as an inherent risk in the game... but nobody accepts someone trying to intentionally injure another player as "just part of the game".

Loomis and Payton had knowledge of this and not only did nothing to try to stop it, but even tried to cover it up. This isn't just a black eye for the league, but for the Saints and their owner, who had built up a lot of goodwill nationally Post Katrina. I can only imagine how Benson must feel...embarrassed, betrayed.

These two were supposed to have the Saints and Benson's best interests first...didn't happen.


I disagree. American style football has grown to one of the greatest sports in the world and it so by being an aggressive and violent game.

Every Owner, Coach and Player that has ever walked into a board room or onto the field knows the inherent risk of playing.

Every player that has ever donned a uni has had the initial dream of making it to the Hall of Fame. The difference that has gotten most of them there is their level of play.

Whether that level of play is speed, finese or great leaping ability OR the willingness and ability to literally knock the **** out of someone separates the men from the boys.

Players on the field tell their opponent across the line they are going to rip f'ng head off all the time, should they be charged with communicating a threat? Only difference here is a coach saying I'll give you $1K to rip his head off.

A bounty is just an immediate bonus. Many contracts are ladened with incentives. Make XX number of sacks. Make XX number of tackles. Force XX number of fumbles. Just because it's locker room stuff makes it wrong? I don't see it. It may not be politically correct and it may hurt somones feelings but this is FOOTBALL!

March 5, 2012  03:40 PM ET

Never mind....

Comment #2 has been removed
March 5, 2012  03:46 PM ET

No

March 5, 2012  03:47 PM ET

1/2 the defensive coordinators, head coaches would be fired then.

March 5, 2012  03:48 PM ET

I really have no issue with what they were doing, but I don't think I can make a very good argument.

March 5, 2012  03:49 PM ET

Negative. And this comes from someone who was a fan of one of the teams that was bountied

March 5, 2012  03:58 PM ET

I can see an argument for firing Loomis, but not Payton.

Comment #8 has been removed
Comment #9 has been removed
March 5, 2012  04:32 PM ET
QUOTE(#9):

Understandable. Payton wasn't told by his boss to put an end to it, but IMO he had enough power and say in the organization to put a stop to something like this. Maybe he just thought the rules don't apply to his team.

I agree there should be penalty for Payton. Just not as harsh as Loomis and Williams.

The Saints are lucky they tagged Brees before the NFL took their tag ability away.

Comment #11 has been removed
March 5, 2012  05:07 PM ET

The rule is in place because the league knew teams did this and wanted to stop it. Now they need to impose a penalty that will insure it will never happen again. Not sure if banning them is the right move. The NFL gives their criminal element second chances.

Comment #13 has been removed
March 5, 2012  06:20 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

The rule is in place because the league knew teams did this and wanted to stop it. Now they need to impose a penalty that will insure it will never happen again. Not sure if banning them is the right move. The NFL gives their criminal element second chances.

I agree! I don't think that they will fire anyone really! However, I believe that the Saints are going to suffer big time financially and draft wise. I am almost sure that Payton and Loomis are goig to get fined through the ying yang for this, as well as the organisation asa whole. I believe that Williams will be suspended and fined massively as well. the issue with this is that this will set more than one team at a disadvantage this season (including the Rams)! I don't know if the Rams are willing to go half a season without a DC!

March 5, 2012  06:29 PM ET
QUOTE(#14):

I believe that Williams will be suspended and fined massively as well. the issue with this is that this will set more than one team at a disadvantage this season (including the Rams)! I don't know if the Rams are willing to go half a season without a DC!

See I think that's ridiculous, even though there's a strong possibility of it happening.

The NFL needs to find a way to penalize Gregg Williams without hurting the St Louis Rams.

March 5, 2012  06:30 PM ET
QUOTE(#2):

I'm pretty sure the Packers are cheating as well baron!

Ooooooo....WAMY puts the gloves on!

March 5, 2012  06:39 PM ET
QUOTE(#4):

1/2 the defensive coordinators, head coaches would be fired then.

This. alot of team have this.

Comment #18 has been removed
March 5, 2012  06:52 PM ET
QUOTE(#13):

Interesting article.http://tinyurl.com/7xp7drj I don't see how Payton survives this.

Yikes. I didn't realize Ornstein was linked to all that Bush stuff too. The email is damning, and he should be held accountable for that. I will keep my opinion to myself for now and let right argue.

 
March 5, 2012  06:53 PM ET
QUOTE(#15):

See I think that's ridiculous, even though there's a strong possibility of it happening.The NFL needs to find a way to penalize Gregg Williams without hurting the St Louis Rams.

I just don't know how that's possible. Sucks for the Rams, but Williams is going down.

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