- 04/12/2012, 02:26AM ET
Mrlns Fn said 04/12, 02:26 AM
At one point I was so against PED users entering the Hall that I was not capable of having an open-minded discussion about this topic. I have no doubt that many others are still in that same boat. But time has changed me and my opinions. I'm not so against PED users entering the Hall anymore. Here's why:
For one thing, a lot of the backlash came from MLB's fraternity; a close-knit group that likes inventing bizarre and obscure unwritten rules. Many of these rules come from former players; some come from the media. For example, the BBWAA thinks it's appropriate to keep Hall-worthy players out for certain amounts of time. There are many example of players whose numbers warrant incusion being left out for a year or two simply because the BBWAA doesn't deem them a "first ballot" player.
This unwritten rule business is garbage. Either it's a rule or it's not. And in this case, there is no existing ban on PED users entering the Hall. Maybe an unwritten ban but that's a load of crap.
Look, we'll never identify all users. Some guys would've qualified even without PEDs. We might as well accept the steroid era for what it was.
The Hall should NOT ban PED users.
DonCorleone said 04/12, 04:03 AM
Long time no TD, bro.
I will have to pick the side of banning PED users.
The main reason why I believe they should be banned is because they cheated. These players cheated by taking performance enhancers to gain an edge on the playing field, which diminishes the purity (yes, I said it) of our beloved game.
I also want to point out that there's no way we can know if players like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, A-Rod, etc. took PEDs for a short time, or for a more extended time then what is speculated. For this reason, I avoid the talk of "well, so and so would have made it in to the hall with or without PEDs." Then why take them in the first place?
Cheaters shouldn't be awarded the highest of honor bestowed upon baseball players. What kind if example would this be to the youth if repeat cheaters that abused drugs are honored?
It's less about the "purity" of the game, and more about integrity and character. Clemens, Palmeiro, A-Rod, etc. have not only cheated, but lied constantly about taking drugs.
Records were broken, and an unfair advantage on the field was gained by PED users. No honor in that.
Mrlns Fn said 04/12, 10:24 PM
You're right; it's been a while.
It's true that PED users cheated. But so did spitball pitchers. But nobody's suggesting that the Hall of Fame ban spitballers. The lack of a ban on spitballers established a precedent that the Hall is not going to issue a ban on cheaters. Some may argue that using PEDs is a worse offense than doctoring a ball before throwing a pitch, but that's just conjecture and even if those people have some credibility they're still just splitting hairs.
This is why I believe that the Hall should simply continue what they've already been doing; in other words, refraining from implementing a ban on PED users. There is no precedent and such a ban would be nearly impossible to thoroughly enforce anyway.
Many suspected PED users have never been outright busted. What would the Hall do with guys like that?
We certainly can't allow the Hall to go on a witch hunt and ban players they think used PEDs. And we can't punish an entire generation for the sins of their peers.
Any ban would be imperfect, at best. The Hall of Fame is much better off leaving the status quo untouched. Voters can pick and choose whom they feel are eligible.
DonCorleone said 04/13, 12:42 AM
Gaylord Perry was inducted to the Hall in 1991, even though he admitted (and wrote a book) about utilize the spitball. Now, here is the guideline that the BWAA states for voters to use:
Voting shall be based upon the player???s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
Clearly, the voters in 1991 missed this guideline, and I don't agree with Perry's induction. This is a whole other topic, but I'm just going to say that we can't make the excuse that PED users should be allowed in because a spitball pitcher is in.
There isn't an official ban, but judging from the votes Big Mac and Palmeiro have been receiving, it doesn't look good for the steroid guys. I don't want to punish the entire generation, and it's not like I dislike these guys at all. But MLB has to make an example out of PED users.
It just wouldn't look right to see any one of them in Cooperstown at the induction ceremony. It's also funny that none have really shown a lot of remorse for what they did, except maybe Giambi.
From the BWAA guideline, the PED users missed on character, sportsmanship, and integrity.
Mrlns Fn said 04/13, 11:29 PM
MLB has a system already in place for dealing with PED users. There's a 50-game ban for first time offenders; 100 games for a second offense; and the grand-daddy of them all - a lifetime ban for third time offenders. All suspensions are without pay.
The Hall of Fame doesn't have a ban in place and they don't need to because MLB already disciplines cheaters. Double jeopardy, and whatnot.
And as I've said before, MLB players have always cheated. The biggest names from baseball lore were guilty - guys like Hank Aaron and Willie Mays used amphetamines in the 60's. In 1970 a man named Jim Bouton wrote a tell-all book called "Ball Four", in which he described the prevalence of little green speed pills known as "greenies" or "beans".
Now to be sure, greenies weren't banned by MLB back then. But they were illegal, per the federal government. Just like steroids, which weren't banned by MLB until 2002 but were federally banned all along.
Fair is fair, and that means the Hall of Fame shouldn't use a different set of rules for the "Steroid Era" players than they did for those all-time greats like Aaron and Mays.
The Hall of Fame should not ban PED users.
DonCorleone said 04/14, 12:15 AM
So, are you saying that so long a player doesn't cheat more then two times, which wouldn't incur the "lifetime ban," that you'd still be ok with a PED user getting into the Hall of Fame today?
I'm trying to make a statement that if a player cheats by using PEDs, he cannot get in, because induction is more then just stats. Like I said before, character, integrity, and sportsmanship are compromised.
Amphetamines is not the same as steroids and HGH, not even close. "Greenies" basically keeps you up and focused (kinda like Red Bulls and coffee), though more potent. This shouldn't be compared to growth hormone drugs.
I don't understand why people bring up the issue that past players should be banned and taken out of the hall, if it is agreed PED users in the 90's-present are banned. Just because some guys got in doesn't mean the Hall of Fame should be a revolving door for more cheaters to get in.
Allowing PED users in will tell the youth and fans that it is ok to crush records like Aaron's homerun record by using drugs to enhance themselves physically.
Immortalizing these guys in the Hall of Fame is not a good idea.
No-go for the Hall.
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