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- 05/01/2012, 10:25AM ET
Paul Konerko in the Hall of Fame?
Outlaw... said 05/01, 10:25 AM
Paul Konerko recently hit his 400th career home run, and of the members of the 400 home run club, the only ones that aren't in the hall are either connected to PED use(HOF voters keep them out, not me), are still on the ballot for a while and Dave Kingman with bhis .237 career average and Darrell Evans and his .248 career average.
Paul Konerko still has 3-4 good years left in him, so it's very possible that he makes the 500 home run club, and to my knowledge, he's never been accused of PED use. And his career battng average is a very respectable .282, not bad at all for a power hitter.
He's been a model of consistency his entire career, he's been the face of the White Sox ever since the Big Hurt left.
His .502 sluggling percentage is in very good, and he averages over 100 RBI per 162 games
He's been a snub for several all star games, and has been overlooked for much of his career, but the numbers don't lie.
He's very good with the glove at first base, has been a class act.
I say if he retires today he eventually gets voted in, and if he plays a 3-4 more years he gets in on his first few ballots.
fvkasm2x said 05/01, 01:18 PM
Good topic. Good luck bro.
It seems like the Hall of Fame has now become the "Hall of pretty good." That's why we talk about guys who never win awards, never lead statistical categories, etc... and how they should be in the Hall. I'm one of the few that still believe the Hall should be reserved for greatness.
Konerko has definitely been solid and consistent. I'd love a player with his career on my team. But:
Offense:
- Only 1 top 5 MVP finish
- Only 5 years with MVP votes (including 13th, 16th and 22nd placings)
- Only 5 years All Star selection
- WAR of 1.73 per season
The only category he's ever led the league in is Ground Into Double Plays.
Playoff Performance:
- Avg of .243 in 5 playoff series
- Avg of .250 in the World Series
- Twice as many K's as Walks
Fielding
- Career -26 Runs above average
- Career - 2 Total fielding runs
He's got very nice cumulative stats and has been a very solid player. His longevity has helped his numbers in that regard. Has been one of the league's all time greats? No.
Outlaw... said 05/01, 01:54 PM
MVP finishes are not valid arguments IMO. Konerko has been overlooked for most of his career. he's played on the other Chicago team, he doesn't get much media attention, and MVP votes are made by people, not machines that generate who the true MVP is.
The All Star selections are the same. All Star selections are a popularity contest.
And I might give the WAR argument a thought when you can give me a standardized formula for WAR, until then, it's a made up stat with no real use.
Konerko hasn't had many opportunities in the playoffs.
And since you're caught up in leading the league, Konerko has twice lead the AL in Range Factor at 1B and Fielding percentage, he's been a very solid defender.
Going by the history of HOF selections, the amount of players writers suspect used PEDs that won't get voted in gives Konerko a much better shot of getting voted in.
The only members of the 400 home run club not in the Hall and not on the ballott either have been verified as PED users or have ver low batting averages. Konerko has neither working against him.
Plus he's still got 3-4 years to boost his numbers. 500 HRs is a real possibility.
fvkasm2x said 05/01, 02:14 PM
Fred McGriff
I loved The Crime Dog. He was a great player for Toronto and Atlanta. From 1988 to 1994, he ranked 4th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th and 5th in his league in OPS.
He has 8 top 20 MVP votes. Three silver sluggers. He's led the league in HR, OPS and OPS+
How about the 7 years after that amazing peak? From 95-2002 he averaged: 27 HR, 99 RBI, .288 BA, .371 OBP, and 121 OPS+
For 7 years straight, McGriff was one of the best offensive players in baseball. He bashed with the best of them and was often at the top of the list. Then in the next 7 years he was still an amazing players. 14 years of consecutive dominance.
Here are the following career numbers for: Hits HR RBI Runs AVG OBP SLG OPS+
Fred McGriff: 2490 493 1550 1349 .284 .377 .509 134
Paul Konerko: 2055 401 1276 1053 .283 .359 .502 122
McGriff is beating Konerko in every single category. He has more individual awards/accolades.
He's led both the AL and NL in HR.
You need 75% of the votes for the HOF.
McGriff has gotten 21%, 18% and 24% on his 3 ballots. If he hasn't sniffed close to 75%, what makes you think Konerko will do so?
Outlaw... said 05/01, 03:34 PM
McGriff has only been on the ballot 3 years. As long as you maintain 5% of the vote, you can stay on the ballot 15 years, and McGriff will eventually get in. Fact is, there have been a lot of great players standing in McGriff's way.
There won't be so many waiting ahead of Konerko when he joins the ballot. Chipper, Thome, Vlad and Mo will likely already be in the HOF. Jeter will likely retire around the same time as Konerko, and is the only current player that comes to mind that would have priority over Konerko.
Bert Blyleven and Jim Rice has taught that the longer you stay on the ballot, the better your chances of getting in. I can't see Konerko getting passed up 15 times. It's what the HOF wants, a great player that hasn't been connected to PED use. This era, the pickings are slim in that category.
Konerko is 36 and still putting up big numbers, barring injury, it's hard to imagine he can't hit 25 homers per year the next 4 seasons and reach the 500 home run club.
I'm not saying Paul Konerko will be first ballot, but he will eventually get in the HOF in his 15 years of eligibility.
fvkasm2x said 05/02, 01:11 PM
You're assuming the voters will pick Konerko because their isn't anyone better than him on the ballot. That may or may not be true. The voting rules state that a player must be retired for 5 years before they go on the ballot.
During Konerko's voting period we will see the likes of:
Mo Rivera
Jeter
Chipper
Vlad
Omar Vizquel
Thome
Ortiz
Manny Ramirez
Damon
Jason Giambi
TONS of other veteran pitchers
There will be lots of guys to choose from actually. Not all of them will get in (talent/roid use)... but to say Konerko will eventually get in because everyone else on the ballot sucks is a misnomer.
Most writers only pick two or three guys to vote for anyway. Konerko isn't guaranteed a spot.
As for McGriff (who should be in ahead of Konerko), you can't blame that on the ballot either. Voters are allowed to vote up to 10 times on 1 ballot. The HOF only elects 3 or 4 guys every year. That means voters are limiting their votes. Thus, your theory doesn't hold water. There might be 3 or 4 better candidates every year... but voters have 10 votes. They could still vote for McGriff and those 3 or 4 better.
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Comments (208) Add A Comment
Should baseball even bother with a HOF anymore? Half of those already inducted are under suspicion of cheating and anyone close to having the stats that would warrant induction have already been nailed for cheating.....the HOF is just a group of cheaters that didn't officially get caught....
---Loki---
Total Comments (9401)
It ain't cheatin if you don't get caught.
Outlaw...
Ball Ground, GA
Total Comments (39777)
Never in contention for a MVP & never lead the league in anything. Very good? Yes. HOF? No.
His 400-500 home runs are equal to 350-400 home runs in the 60-70-80's. If guys like Dale Murphy & Dwight Evans don't deserve to be in the HOF (and they don't) neither does Konerko. imo
MattUSA
Total Comments (2395)
No because he didn't play for the Braves
TaylormadeR11S
Total Comments (237)
Good point, Scooter.
Outlaw...
Ball Ground, GA
Total Comments (39777)
That would be the argument I'm expecting.
Outlaw...
Ball Ground, GA
Total Comments (39777)
In today's fannation, I am expecting an argument more in the way of......
"NO"
MattUSA
Total Comments (2395)
Or the BB line of "I'll argue the opposite of what you said."
I'm hoping for the off chance someone who will actually argue it will pick it up.
Outlaw...
Ball Ground, GA
Total Comments (39777)
~~
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20049)
that's your way of saying, "I don't like what you said but I can't really argue it either..."
---Loki---
Total Comments (9401)
This is your way of saying:
"I molest collies."
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20049)
Okay, lets break your statements down...
This is false. At best a gross exaggeration and extremely misinformed. At worst, I statement pulled out of your ass that has zero basis in fact and is designed to elicit emotional responses from those that read it.
I would love to see a your list of "half" of the HOFers that are under suspicion of cheating. Please list your sources.
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20049)
*a statement
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20049)
Also false. Please list all those that have been "nailed" for cheating. NAILED, not suspected. You know, "nailed", as in proven to have cheated. Failed tests, admissions, that kind of thing.
Sure, some have been caught. To say that "anyone" warrenting induction have been "nailed for cheating" is not factual.
There you go.
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20049)
*warranting
dammit.
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20049)
Your turn.
Mondo Jay
Total Comments (20049)
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