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  • 05/14/2012, 02:34AM ET

Should Florida State leave the ACC for the Big 12?

Marlins Fan (156-78-31) vs GoatHCW (102-10-2)
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Yes.

For anyone who doesn't get the topic, while this isn't a move that's necessarily going to happen in real life there has been quite a bit of recent speculation concerning FSU possibly leaving the ACC to join the Big 12.

I believe it would be the right move for Slorida State University.

For one thing it would be financially profitable. Due to the TV contracts of the respective conferences FSU would stand to make millions of additional dollars each year off TV rights alone.

For another thing it would further legitamize both the Big 12 and the FSU football program, which would obviously be beneficial for the school (and conference) in terms of recruiting. The Big 12 would have a major foothold in both FL and TX, two of the world's biggest and best football factories.

The Big 12 only has 10 schools. Rumor has it that Miami would follow FSU to the Big 12, which would give the Big 12 a total of 12 teams as well as maintain the FSU/Miami rivalry.

The ACC doesn't have much to offer FSU (besides it's basketball teams) and there isn't a good reason for FSU to stay in the conference but as we all know... football is king.

FSU should move to the Big 12.


No.
Here's why I don't see Florida State leaving the ACC nor think it's a good idea.

ACC payout per team : 17 million
Big 12 payout per team : 20 million

ACC buyout to leave conference : 20 million

Florida St athletic department announced last week they are facing a 2.4 million dollar shortfall on their 2012/2013 budget.

So FSU athletics are already facing money issues and now they should pay a 20 million dollar buyout to increase their pay by 3 million a year? It would take them 5 years just to break even from the ACC buyout. Then when you factor in travel expenses it's even worse.

Florida State had a representative present in the current TV rights negotiations last week and signed off on the deal. If they felt 17 million wasn't enough then why agree to it a week earlier?

If Florida St wanted more money in the deal then maybe Florida State should have competed at a high level this last decade. Instead they have turned into an above average football team along with Miami. If those two teams could have maintained their prestige from the 90's then I'm sure the ACC could have gotten more money out of the deal with ESPN.

I'll argue more of the football side next


You're thinking short term instead of seeing the bigger picture.

The fact that FSU is facing a budget shortfall is exactly why the move to the Big 12 makes a lot of sense. Sure, it wouldn't be cost effective in the short term, as FSU would have to buy their way out of the ACC. However, the additional 3 million FSU would receive annually because of the TV rights would quickly pay off the transfer fee and set the University up long term for financial success.

FSU is currently operating in the red; they're losing money. There is no short term fix; however the move to the Big 12 would be a permanent solution to help FSU get back in the black. It's just basic economics. FSU would have to take a hit right now to secure a financially stable future.

And TV rights are only the tip of the iceberg.

A move to the Big 12 would also bring in money through other avenues; for example, playing in the Big 12 would give FSU an additional recruiting pitch. It gives FSU better conference games. It also gives FSU access to a hot-bed (TX, OK) of primo prospects.

Those factors would bring success on the field, which would bring money.


Another important hypothetical scenario is Notre Dame.

People have been speculating for some time now that Notre Dame is going to have to eventually pick a conference and the only one that makes sense (according to all the experts) is the ACC.

If the ACC is the eventual home of Notre Dame then they will add either Rutgers or UConn to get to 16 teams and they can renegotiate their TV deal. You know as well as I do that if the ACC adds Notre Dame they will be able to bring in much more then the current Big 12 deal.

Of course this is all hypothetical but so is the debated topic.

As for the football side I don't see what games will bring excitement to Tallahassee outside of Texas and Oklahoma. I don't see many Florida people taking road trips to Lawrence, Kansas or Lubbock, TX.

Florida State hasn't won a ACC championship since 2005 so there's no guarantee that they can even hang in the Big 12. They could go in and be the 4th best team. If they think it's tough playing Clemson and Virginia Tech every year imagine playing Texas and Oklahoma.

Also a lot of FSU football people complain that the ACC favors the Carolina schools, Big 12 with Texas is MUCH worse.


Not that geography matters much as far as conference alignment goes, but ND going to the ACC wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, geographically. Wouldn't make sense in terms of rivalry, either, since ND's biggest current rival is USC. That said, I don't see ND ever going to a conference. They have a sweet TV deal right now and it'd be dumb giving it up, and again it would cause unfavorable schedule changes.

You mentioned the lack of big games for FSU if they join the Big 12, but in the proposed deal that would include Miami any schedule change that would include Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech would me a huge upgrade over ACC conference games. It's really not even close.

Either way... the move would bring FSU much prestige and would certainly help with recruiting, which would certainly go a long way toward restoring FSU's prominence on the National scene.

Again, it comes down to money, and FSU has a lot to gain financially by moving to the Big 12. Conversely, the football program doesn't have any strong reason to stay in the ACC., particularly if Miami followed the 'Noles to the Big 12.

Money talks and the Big 12 is the right call.

Good TD


Interesting notes from the FSU president Monday night

* Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12, at least in part because the Big 12 is not an equal share conference. Texas has considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share. So, when fans realize that Texas would get more dollars than FSU, always having a competitive advantage, it would be interesting to see the fan reaction.

* Much is being made of the extra $2.9M that the Big 12 contract (which hasn't been inked yet) gets over the ACC contract. Given that the Texas schools are expected to play each other (the Big 12 is at least as Texas centered than the ACC is North Carolina centered), the most likely scenario has FSU playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia on a recurring basis and the other teams sporadically, we realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to most games - the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to be in the Big 12

* The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker

FSU will NOT join B12

Good TD

Comment #1 has been removed
May 14, 2012  03:17 AM ET

Change is a good thing and FSU isn't as relevant as they use to be in recent years. But instead of going to the Big 12, they should move to the Big East were they can dominate and be part of the BCS Bowl Series.

Comment #3 has been removed
May 14, 2012  07:31 AM ET

Good for the football program, awful for the basketball program. No way do I see this happening.

May 14, 2012  10:56 AM ET
QUOTE(#4):

Good for the football program, awful for the basketball program. No way do I see this happening.

I think it's the opposite. How could getting away form Duke and NC not be good for the basketball program. They might actually win a Conf Championship for a change. It would be bad for football not that they're dominating the ACC given that several schools are b-ball first (Duke, NC), but going against Texas and Oklahoma every year could be tough!

In the end, which ever makes the most money is what FSU will do!

May 14, 2012  12:00 PM ET
QUOTE(#4):

Good for the football program, awful for the basketball program. No way do I see this happening.

Why would anyone care about the FSU basketball program?

Comment #7 has been removed
May 14, 2012  12:56 PM ET

I'd be happy to debate this with you, especially considering we had a draw in our last throwdown...

May 14, 2012  01:39 PM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Why would anyone care about the FSU basketball program?

FSU had a good season and were competitive with Duke and NC.

Comment #10 has been removed
May 14, 2012  02:34 PM ET

Tempted to try this. If this is still open after 2 hours I'd like to try my hand on this topic.

May 14, 2012  02:46 PM ET

Oops. Fail.

May 14, 2012  02:48 PM ET

Looking forward to this.

May 14, 2012  03:35 PM ET

I haven't done a throwdown in some time. I posted my argument about 20 minutes ago. Should it take this long to post?

May 14, 2012  03:42 PM ET

*** It would take them 5 years just to break even from the ACC buyout.

Typo meant to say 7 years.

May 14, 2012  06:05 PM ET

Goat! You've got a fun challenger here, Marlins... this throwdown is in good hands. I look forward to the second and final arguments, guys... best of luck to both of you!

May 14, 2012  08:13 PM ET
QUOTE(#5):

I think it's the opposite. How could getting away form Duke and NC not be good for the basketball program. They might actually win a Conf Championship for a change.

Huh?

I guess news travels slow in your part of the country but FSU IS the reigning ACC Conference Champ.

May 14, 2012  08:16 PM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Why would anyone care about the FSU basketball program?

Because they won the ACC tournament, maybe?

Non-ACC fans don't see to understand how big basketball is in the ACC. Much bigger than football.

May 15, 2012  06:36 AM ET

IF FSU wanted to change conferences, all else being equal it would make more sense for them to switch places with Vanderbilt and move to the SEC. Geographically it would make sense for both teams. Vandy is traditionally a much better basketball school and is non-competitive in SEC football. They are also more academically in line with some of the ACC schools.

I still don't think it will happen though. Too much tradition and logical rivals in the ACC for them to make a move unless the money is just outrageous.

 
May 15, 2012  07:15 AM ET

So FSU athletics are already facing money issues and now they should pay a 20 million dollar buyout to increase their pay by 3 million a year? It would take them 5 years just to break even from the ACC buyout.

Interesting math. :)

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