- 05/14/2012, 11:05PM ET
Whosthere said 05/14, 11:05 PM
Woodson was the captain, leader, and best player of the 90's Cowboys defenses. During his ten years, the Cowboyw D was ranked in the top five 7 times, 4 at number 1 overall. He was a five time pro bowler and 3 time first team all pro during the 90's. Oh yeah...they won 3 super bowls too.... Only Leroy Butler has the same kinds of accolades during the 90's (4 time pro-bwl and 4 time first team all-pro), but Leroy did not have the playoff stats that Darren had, and his teams were not as highly ranked defensively.
The argument for best safety of the 90's usually comes down to one of 3....Darren, Steve Atwater, or Leroy Butler
Atwater had a remarkable 8 pro bowls during the period, but only 2 all-pro selections, and again, not the same playoff success or defensive rankings that Darren had.
The bottom line is this: Woodson led a defense that won more super bowls, was more highly ranked, and won more playoff games than any other in his era. He is regarded by his fellow players on those teams as the best defensive player on those teams.
What else does a guy need to do to get HOF consideration?
MrSoloDolo said 05/15, 02:14 AM
Woodson had a solid career, but he should not be in the HoF.
As is, the NFL HoF does not admit many safeties. Only seven safeties are in the HoF. Since 1960, 11 safeties from the all-decade teams that the NFL releases (whom are eligible) have not made the HoF. There are more and more good safeties who are retiring (Harrison and Dawkins for example) or still playing even. Simply put, the NFL has plenty of talented safeties whom are all fairly similar with their resumes, but fall short of the HoF. Why boost Woodson in over them?
Woodson was in the debate for the best safety of the 90s, but that itself is a hinderance. A real argument could be made that he is third in the group you mentioned. When I think of the HoF, I think of dominant players who stood out from their competition. Woodson simply doesn't fit that bill. He couldn't seperate himself from others at his position during his playing career, so why should he be enshrined in Canton?
Arguing if the NFL should look at including more safeties is one debate. Because they don't, and because of how many simply equal or better options there are compared to Woodson, he doesn't deserve to be enshrined.
Whosthere said 05/15, 09:01 AM
So your argument is that because there are other talented players at his position, he shouldn't be in the HOF? It seems to me that you could use that argument to keep every player out of the HOF.
Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, and Marshall Faulk all played at the same time. You can debate who was the best. Why elevate one above the other two? By your logic, none of them should be in the HOF, but guess what? ALL of them are in. That's how you handle great players. You don't keep them out because there were other great players at the same time
If you want to say that there are more deserving players yet to get in, you might have a stronger argument. Maybe that spot should be taken by say....Chris Carter this year. I wouldn't argue against it. My only argument is that Woodson accoplished more than any other Safety during the 90's and deserves to be in at some point. Remember, the HOF is not about talent, it's about accomplishment, and even more so, it's about accomplishment compared to the players of your era. Woodson certainly qualifies based on that.
MrSoloDolo said 05/15, 11:41 AM
No, my argument is that there are MORE talented players at his position whom STILL haven't gotten in, and that's why he doesn't deserve it.
The players whom play safety that make it to the HoF were absolutely considered the best of their time. They stood out from their competition, and made the HoF take notice. Woodson wasn't the best safety during his own career, so why should he be elevated above the countless deserving players and enshrined? You cannot. The system dictates that the best of the best safeties get in. Woodson is simply not that, and there's no way you can argue he is if he cannot separate himself from even the safeties he played against.
Also, there's no backing to your claims that Woodson led the defense. Sure, he was an effective players and contributed, but he wasn't the leader and I cannot find any sources supporting your claim. Nobody thought he was the leader, so I don't know why you do.
Super Bowl rings are nice, but they aren't enough to warrant inclusion in the HoF. You need to be better than your competition at the position. Woodson wasn't, and the harsh truth is he shouldn't be included in the HoF as is.
Whosthere said 05/15, 02:31 PM
Actually, Woodson WAS better than his contemporaries. You're opinion doesn't change that. Let's see if I can dig up some of the things that you say you just can't find after I am sure an exhastive search:
Woodson is the Cowboys All-Time leading tackler, and The 'boys have had more than a few great defensive players.
DW was recognized as the best at his position at least 3 years in a row during the 90's. Forget the pro bowls...that's a beauty contest.
DW was captain of the defense and the signal caller on the field for the best defense of the 90's.
Dallas didn't use a third CB to cover the slot, because DW was also the best cover guy in the secondary. People often forget the amazing athletic talent DW had (a 4.35 guy at 6'2 225 lbs)
Playing alongside Woodson made Roy Williams a perennial pro bowler.
Dallas' defense was at or near the top every year until DW left. Explain that without him.
Again, I'm not saying Darren is a shoe-in, just that the best player, and the team captain, and the defensive qb, of the best defense of his era, and 3 time super bowl team, should be in at some point.
MrSoloDolo said 05/16, 01:08 AM
I'm Ogre. Stormy is correct. I wanted to TD without a name stigma (we all know it exists) and created Solo. the TDing system is, and has been for a long time, broken. Solo was an attempt at a remedy back when I visited this site more. Since I checked in and wanted to TD again, I reactiviated it.
heck votes, do whatever you want, but this account has only ever done TDs and comments. Never voted in any TD on FN, and I've absolutely never voted with Ogre in one of its TDs. This is the only other account I have ever had.
Beleive me or not, who cares. Stormy seemed intent on "outing" me, so I'm just going to save him the breathe and admit it.
Wondering why I did it, feel free to message Ogre. I'm not even going to bother to carry on this TD because the entire purpose of this account is gone up in smoke. My fault for admitting it was me and expecting people to not out me if I ever decided to TD with it.
Take this however you want. I just felt the need to clear the air, and officially remove all rumors and concerns. Solo's done because his mission is no longer possible.
Oh by the way, Woodson isn't a HoFer. Sorry to any Dallas fan thinking otherwise.
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