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  • 06/03/2012, 04:05AM ET

TD Tourney: Better title chance - D. Howard to the Lakers or Clippers?

J-Business (78-66-19) vs Marlins Fan (156-78-31)
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If Dwight Howard goes to one of the LA teams, which team has a better chance at the title:

Lakers or Clippers?

I say the Lakers

First, presumably if Howard goes to either of those teams, the following trades would have to be made:
Griffin (other players for the cap) for Howard
Bynum for Howard

The Lakers would have a starting lineup of:
Sessions
Bryant
Barnes
Gasol
Howard

Off the bench would be MWP, Hill and Blake

Kobe is a bit older but he still was 2nd in scoring and Gasol would do great with a big man who can defend and also score
The team would be very strong on both offense and defense and both sides would complement each other

The Clippers would start
Paul
Billups
Butler
Jordan
Howard

Foye, Young, Martin of the bench

This is a good team, but the problem is they still lack scoring. Chris Paul is great but the past playoffs have shown that he's not the one to take up the scoring slack.

Howard himself is good but has never averaged more than 23 pts a game
This is a good team, but in the playoffs, I think their lack of scoring options will hurt

Both teams would be good but the Lakers would have the offensive and defensive balance


Your opening question asks which LA team has a better chance at a title with Howard. I don't see why a trade has to be made. Howard is a free agent after this upcoming season so to me this TD is be about "where will he sign as a free agent after the 2012-13 season" and that's how I intend to argue it because there are too many variables when discussing trades.

So to answer your question, Dwight Howard would be more likely to win a title if he signs with the Clippers instead of the Lakers.

The Clippers are a more talented team than the Lakers. Sure the Lakers have Kobe but next time we see him on the hardwood he will be in his 17th season. Then Gasol and Bynum... both very inconsistent, especially Gasol. And that's the core of your team, an aging Kobe, a talented but unfocused Bynum, and a shell of what used to be Pau Gasol. Even Howard can't guarantee success with that bunch.

And considering Kobe's age, the Lakers would have to win a championship SOON; like in the next two years, tops.

The Clippers have an extremely talented core in Chris Paul and Blake Griffin, but the biggest plus is due to their youth their window of championship-opportunity is MUCH larger.


Which is more practical?
The Clippers trade Griffin (and other salaries) for Howard now?
or
The Clippers sign Howard in 2013-14 along with having to extend Griffin's contract, and resign Chris Paul (contract ends in the 2012-13 season) along with the other role players?

A trade is the only feasible way to make this TD because it would be almost impossible for the Lakers or Clippers to sign Howard and keep their current star players

The trade scenarios I presented were realistic situations
The Howard for Bynum trade was widely rumored and this rumor still exists. In fact, if Howard is traded, this is one of the top locations

Although, the Howard for Griffin trade only existed in NBA Truth and Rumors section and other blogs, it's still very practical
Howard's still young and Griffin's young

Your suggestion that for the 2013-14 season, the Clippers will sign Howard, resign Griffin and also Chris Paul sounds like a Donald Sterling dream

In reality, they had a lockout last yr to prevent these scenarios from happening again.

So back to my original argument,
the Howard-Kobe-Gasol combo has a better chance than the Howard w/ the Clippers scenario


It's hypothetical so I can't say which scenario is more practical. We're talking "what ifs" and I just don't see how to say which "what if" is less "what iffy".

Regarding cap space... the Heat proved that when a superstar wants to go somewhere specific, he will. Players can take less than the max to sign with the team of their choosing, and whether Howard does or not I don't know but for this TD I guess I'm assuming he will.

So we're left with rosters that look like this:


LAKERS

PG- Sessions
SG- Kobe
SF- Ebanks
PF- Gasol
C- Howard

BN- Bynum, Barnes, World Peace, Hill, Blake


CLIPPERS

PG- Paul
SG- Foye
SF- Nick Young
PF- Griffin
C- Howard

BN- Caron Butler, Reggie Evans, K-Mart, Billups, Bledsoe, Mo Williams


The Lakers feature Kobe with Howard locking down the D and boards and a really good bench piece in Bynum. This team would have a year or two to win a title before Kobe hangs it up.

Th Clippers feature the ultimate floor general in Paul alongside Griffin, with Howard locking down the D and boards. The bench is much better, featuring savvy vets like K-Mart, Butler and Billups.

The Clips youth means their title-window is MUCH larger.


There's a difference between a "what if" scenario and one that's virtually impossible

You're trying to present a "scenario" in which the Lakers or Clippers can sign Howard and keep their current players after the next season

From the salary perspective, it's impossible
From a player perspective, it's highly unlikely that they'll have those same players in 2013-14.
It's a ridiculous scenario

Miami made the move before the lockout and the league has changed
If you want to make an impossible scenario, why not just suggest that Howard sign with the Heat for the veteran minimum

A trade is the only practical way to even look at this scenario

As far as the idea that the Clippers would never trade Griffin for Howard, that is insane.
Howard is 26
Griffin is 23

Howard averaged 20 pts, 14.5 rebs
Griffin 20 pts 11 rebs

Howard's a 6 time All-Star, All-NBA and 3 time def player of the yr.
So yes, the Clippers would have to consider it

Once again,
the Lakers trading for Howard and pairing him with Kobe gives the Lakers a better chance at winning a title than Howard w/ Paul and the Clippers

A realistic "what if" that can possibly happen


No way Griffin and Howard are equal talents. They score the same amount of points per game but Howard kills him on rebounding and defensively speaking it's not even a little bit close. Griffin is a liability on defense and Howard is arguably the game's best big man defender. The one-for-one trade wouldn't happen any more than the Clippers finding the csh to outright sign Howard. Enough about that.

Like I keep saying both the LA teams are talented. However, the Clippers are undeniably deeper than the Lakers, and the Clippers have the added benefit of youth.

Say Howard went to the Lakers before the start of the 2012-13 season. Kobe's in year 17 and Artest and Gasol are another year older. How many years can the Lakers expect to compete with that core? One? Two, at best? The chances of the Lakers winning a title with Howard and their current roster are slim.

But if Howard goes to the Clippers that would mean a core of Griffin, Paul and Howard. Chris Paul would be the elder statesman, at 27. That means the Clippers would have about a decade to win a title.

With Dwight Howard, the Clippers would have much better odds at winning a title than would the Lakers.

June 3, 2012  03:58 PM ET

I"m not sure how you can take the liberty of assuming Blake Griffin would be traded. The way I read it is which team would have a better chance by adding Howard. since it's completely hypothetical, you don't have to worry about salary cap moves.

If you make the assumptions taken above, it's inarguable. Griffin is a PF, Bynum is a center. The Lakers would be replacing a C with a C while the Clippers would be giving up their best player in exchange for Dwight. Such a move would make them worse than they currently are. For this to work, Howard and Griffin would have to be playing side by side. In which case the Clippers would likely be the better team. Bynum was fantastic this season, Howard wouldn't be much of an upgrade, if any.

Also, the Lakers couldn't give up just Bynum to make it work if you are including cap ramifications. Bynum is only making 16mil next year, Dwight more than 19mil and the Lakers are already over the cap.

June 3, 2012  04:18 PM ET

Way to ruin yet another TD. At least JBIZ was trying to make a realistic scenerio and I'll leave it at that to give left and right a fair shake after 2 arguments.

June 3, 2012  04:24 PM ET
QUOTE(#2):

Way to ruin yet another TD. At least JBIZ was trying to make a realistic scenerio and I'll leave it at that to give left and right a fair shake after 2 arguments.

Agreed. you'd think he knows how tds work with all that he has done.

June 3, 2012  05:43 PM ET

The Clippers could very easily start Kenyon Martin at PF with Howard at C and then bring Jordan off the bench.

June 3, 2012  05:47 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

Also, the Lakers couldn't give up just Bynum to make it work if you are including cap ramifications. Bynum is only making 16mil next year, Dwight more than 19mil and the Lakers are already over the cap.

If that was contingent on the trade going through then they would just add a scrub with an approx. 3 mil salary and the deal would work. Since it would be a scrub it wouldn't matter who it is for the purposes of this hypothetical.

Comment #6 has been removed
June 3, 2012  06:16 PM ET
QUOTE(#2):

Way to ruin yet another TD. At least JBIZ was trying to make a realistic scenerio and I'll leave it at that to give left and right a fair shake after 2 arguments.

You're an idiot. It's impossible to "ruin" a TD with comments. His scenario isn't realistic because it ties rights hands. It's impossible to argue the Clippers would be better than the lakers by giving up Blake Griffin.

June 3, 2012  06:17 PM ET
QUOTE(#6):

You got this audio?

Wouldn't do you any good...too many big words for you regardless of format.

Comment #9 has been removed
June 3, 2012  06:29 PM ET
QUOTE(#7):

You're an idiot. It's impossible to "ruin" a TD with comments. His scenario isn't realistic because it ties rights hands. It's impossible to argue the Clippers would be better than the lakers by giving up Blake Griffin.

Fat people, whatcha going to do about them?

June 4, 2012  10:23 AM ET

" I don't like your premise, so I'm going to change everything". Voting left.

June 4, 2012  11:38 AM ET

I don't like how left brought up the trade scenarios at all... The Clippers absolutely would not trade away Blake Griffin and their bench to match salaries for a guy with one year left on his contract and an ego bigger than himself. That is what is not practical...

June 4, 2012  11:41 AM ET
QUOTE(#11):

" I don't like your premise, so I'm going to change everything". Voting left.

I think Marlins understood the intention of the throwdown better than J-Business. I think they were just supposed to add Dwight Howard because just saying that they would trade away Blake Griffin and other players wouldn't result in a better Clippers team at all.

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