- 06/22/2012, 10:39AM ET
7#bag _ Com said 06/22, 10:39 AM
What is LeBron's ceiling amoung the all-time greats?
(For this argument, I'm going to discount centers, so no Mikan,Wilt or Russel debates)
Obviously, th title win moves him beyond Stockton, Barkley,Malone, and the third MVP pushes him beyond Baylor and West (IMNHO)
How high can he go?
He's looking up at Kobe,Duncan, and Oscar next, then the Golden Duo of Bird and Magic before the throne of his Airness.
So how high can he go?
I think he can get to NUMBER
DJRoxalot said 06/23, 10:38 AM
Wow. You think his ceiling has him becoming the 2nd best player of all time? That's pretty ballsy. I think that's way too high.
He will never be on the same par with Magic or MJ imo. He isn't the scorer MJ was and he isn't the passer Magic was. And I don't think he approaches either in titles.
And Oscar Robertson (like Magic) was a better overall player imo. More to come on this.
Larry Bird was better rebounder and a much more clutch player when it mattered. And I don't think he approaches Bird in title either.
So how high can he go?
Since you did a list first argument only pretty much, I will keep it short.
7#bag _ Com said 06/23, 12:23 PM
LeBron James is the ripe old age of 27.
So he hasn't even reached his apex, so he should have another 5 years of near or close production to what he is doing now, then another 5-6 years of decline (considering what Nash is doing another DECADE after his prime is not out of reach) as most players hit the wall around 32. (Dirk KG, and PP being recent examples)
So what does that give us?
MVPs you have to think that LeBron gets the Jordan treatment (still) So Durants and every great year is going to get one over LBJ. So lets give him 3 more, (Durants gonna get 2)
Thats SIX MVPs
Can we put him down for the next 6 All-NBA First team and at least 7 All-Defense? Maybe 2 or 3 Defensive Player of the Years?
LeBrons gonna be like MJ,KAJ and Magic- If he plays, he gets and All-Star invite. That makes him and EIGHTEEN TIME All-Star.
So we got 6 MVPs, a DOZEN 1st team All-NBA, and 11 First team Defense. Then 18 times an All-Star.
I could see 47K Points. 11K Assists, 3K Steals and maybe 13K Rebounds. (about 1.5 his currant total)
If he goes for 2K Points a year- Easy- for FIVE years (until he's 32) He's at #7 ALL-TIME
DJRoxalot said 06/23, 08:52 PM
Yep, he's just 27. But, he's played in the NBA for 9 seasons and in 689 games. An average of 77 games per season. He has managed to avoid serious injury too date, but he is a high flyer and his shock absorbers (knees) will eventually give out.
Kobe was in his 15th season this past regular season and while he is certainly still a good player, he is starting to slow down. Players that come to the NBA from high school don't play into their late 30's and early 40's like other players can when they play in a lot fewer games in 2-4 years of college.
James is in his prime now.
Nash played 4 seasons at Santa Clara before coming to the NBA so that wasn't a great example since he doesn't have the mileage on his body James will.
He has 19,045 points right now. For him to get another 27,000 points he would have to play another 10 years. And if he played in every game? He would have to average just under 33ppg. That isn't happening. If he played in 75 games a year (just under what he has), he would have to score 36ppg. I don't see him getting another 6,000 assists. He has just under 5,000 rebounds. So, 8,000 more rebounds is a stretch.
7#bag _ Com said 06/24, 12:17 PM
Ok, DJ, I'm going to be using these things called numbers, so you and the trolls try and keep up.
LeBron is 27, His prime is going to run until 32 (AT LEAST) He's Never missed more than 7 games, so lets say he plays 75 games MIN.
He's averaging 28 a game now. With his low-post game that he FINALLY figured out, and the fact Wade looks broken, lets just say he stays at 28PPG as Spo gives more shots to Bosh.
So thats 28x75 2100. - Again that CONSERVATIVE
That gives him another 10500 Pts- almost 30K.
Karl Malone went for over 20 a game until he was 39, and LeBron is also built like a brick shathouse.
Duncan is 35, and went for 19 a game.
So lets say LeBron averages 17 a game until he's 38. Going 75 games again, that's 7650
Thats how he gets to 37K- thats number THREE all-time (counting Kobe)- at LEAST
8 per game- He is the top rebounder and getting BETTER
8x75x6 (You don't lose rebounding like you lose dunking) 3600
Then another 6 per game until 38 = 2700
Thats over 11K
Dimes? 8 again, for at least 8 years, maybe 5.5 after that.
3rd in Points
18 in Rebs
3rd in Steals
4th in assists
DJRoxalot said 06/24, 05:31 PM
Malone and Duncan also played 4 years or college basketball!!!! A maximum of 40 games or so a year as opposed to 82.
I just don't see LeBron playing until he's 38, or even 37. I think he plays till he's 34 or 35, but don't think he will put the same numbers he is now. He has another 4, maybe 5 years at his current level.
The high flying style is going to take it's toll on his knees and saying he can average 75 games a season is just unrealistic imo. At some point his knees will give way and he will miss a significant amount of games. And he doesn't have the outside shot to become a perimeter player.
James is a great player and if he finishes top 5, that is a great career.
I don't think he comes close to MJ or Kobe. Both are more clutch when it comes to the postseason. Bird was a better rebounder and he was just as good a passer even if James averages more per game. But, Bird was a far better shooter and a clutch player. James could come close to Robertson, but I give the Big O the advantage because he was just 6-5. Yet, he was just as good at rebounding and a far better passer.
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