Throwdowns > Forfeited

Dave, I saw the title of this TD and immediately thought of Babe Ruth as well. Great selection there.

Would Bonds have those 7 MVP's if it weren't for roids?

How many stolen bases did Ruth have? Since we're asking about the strengths of Ruth that had. (answers? Ruth averaged 5.5 steals a season over 22 years). Bonds averaged over 23 a year. Bonds had more doubles. Bonds was a better fielder. (Ruth had twice the errors of Bonds).

QUOTE(#4):

Originally posted 09:47 AM ET  06.28 by Gruden

How many stolen bases did Ruth have? Since we're asking about the strengths of Ruth that had. (answers? Ruth averaged 5.5 steals a season over 22 years). Bonds averaged over 23 a year. Bonds had more doubles. Bonds was a better fielder. (Ruth had twice the errors of Bonds).

Babe was 700 pounds.

QUOTE(#2):

Originally posted 09:39 AM ET  06.28 by stargatebabe

Would Bonds have those 7 MVP's if it weren't for roids?

No way in hell.

QUOTE(#5):

Originally posted 10:38 AM ET  06.28 by Bloggers Needed

Babe was 700 pounds.

But what does that have to do with the question? It simply reinforces the fact that he wasn't the "best that ever played". There were simply many things he couldn't do. Saying he could pitch doesn't change the argument. He couldn't field. Couldn't run. Couldn't turn routine singles into doubles. He could simply hit the ball a long way. The best baseball player would be the one that could do the most things, both offensively and defensively. You wasted an entire argument saying "he could pitch".

Steriods never did exist. Steroids, on the other hand....

QUOTE(#6):

Originally posted 10:41 AM ET  06.28 by Wamu

No way in hell.

He was in the top 4 in MVP voting for 5 years from 1990-1994. He won it 3 times in those 5 years. He came in 2nd in one other. And there's no indication he was using then. So he'd damn sure have 3 of them without steroids.

All indications are that Barry Bonds began using steroids in 1999. He hit 37 HRs that year. And with using he had ONE monster HR year, 2001, with 73. In every other season his HR totals were almost identical to the years he wasn't using steroids. In his case, steroids and HGH allowed him to continue his career far longer than most, which allowed for more HRs. But his spot in the hall of fame and his absolute greatness as a player were cemented long before 1999. Any player winning an MVP 3 times in 5 seasons would be considered one of the greatest of all time.

If it was a question of who I wanted playing in my team (in pure terms of production) then I'm leaning Bonds...
But then again, who has (had) the rings?

QUOTE(#11):

Originally posted 10:58 AM ET  06.28 by MagicSpecs

If it was a question of who I wanted playing in my team (in pure terms of production) then I'm leaning Bonds... But then again, who has (had) the rings?

Does Babe Ruth have those rings playing for the Washington Senators? Did Barry Bonds have Lou Gehrig and Leo Durocher and Waite Hoyt and Frank Baker and Earle Combs and Bill Dickey and Tony Lazzeri and Herb Pennock and Dazzy Vance...? Tell me the Hall of Fame players that Barry Bonds had to help him win the rings.

Ty Cobb - minus his racism and dickishness.

I love David, but how the hell does he have 3 votes with no argument?

QUOTE(#13):

Originally posted 11:08 AM ET  06.28 by Ron Mexico II

Ty Cobb - minus his racism and dickishness.

You could say the same about Bonds. On both counts.

QUOTE(#9):

Originally posted 10:43 AM ET  06.28 by Gruden

He was in the top 4 in MVP voting for 5 years from 1990-1994. He won it 3 times in those 5 years. He came in 2nd in one other. And there's no indication he was using then. So he'd damn sure have 3 of them without steroids.

How cab you say there's no indication BB wasn't cheating from 1990-94? Seriously what proof do you have? He left Pittsburgh after the '92 season. Within a couple of years he went from a nimble base stealer to the size of an NFL LB. It's pretty d@mn funny that BB never hit more than 34 HR's in any given year while he was a Pirate. Oh yeah, and let's not forget his personal trainer spent time in jail for him. But I'm sure you are right, BB wasn't cheating from 1900-94. Yeah, right!

QUOTE(#16):

Originally posted 11:11 AM ET  06.28 by Wamu

How cab you say there's no indication BB wasn't cheating from 1990-94? Seriously what proof do you have? He left Pittsburgh after the '92 season. Within a couple of years he went from a nimble base stealer to the size of an NFL LB. It's pretty d@mn funny that BB never hit more than 34 HR's in any given year while he was a Pirate. Oh yeah, and let's not forget his personal trainer spent time in jail for him. But I'm sure you are right, BB wasn't cheating from 1900-94. Yeah, right!

**can and not cab

QUOTE(#15):

Originally posted 11:09 AM ET  06.28 by Gruden

You could say the same about Bonds. On both counts.

I don't think Bonds hated anyone - he just honestly believed he was better than everyone else. I think he started juicing so he could be in the headlines with McGuire and Sosa. He was a for sure hall of famer before he got to San Fran.
Cobb was just mean -- played it and lived it. Never put up any huge power numbers - which too many people look at. He was an all around great - much like Bonds before the roids.

QUOTE(#12):

Originally posted 11:06 AM ET  06.28 by Gruden

Does Babe Ruth have those rings playing for the Washington Senators?

Huh? I hope you are being sarcastic.

HUH?

Keep current stats and ignore the fact that they wouldn't have those stats if not for roids?

Makes perfect sense - NOT!