- 07/11/2012, 09:31PM ET
Bloggers Needed said 07/11, 09:31 PM
Now that we have 8 Fighters in the Hall,
Let's get it on!
How I did the bracket- I want to avoid rematches- and with Randy fighting 3 members, and Royce,Tito, and Chuck fighting 2, match up Royce's 2, and the two of Randys, who have not fought. This prevents Randy vs Royce, but moving on.
This is under PRIDE Rules. 20 minutes, there MUST be a winner. Only Coleman was a huge Pride guy, so advantages are limited, but we are in a cage. (Pride 33) and at the absolute PEAK of the fighter.
Royce Gracie (Pride GP 2000) vs Tito Ortiz
I'll take Royce here. By this time, he had learned to strike somewhat, and had not yet be scared of short elbows. Royce was outweighed by a good 40 pounds, but this fights going to a good bit like his fight with Kimo. Tito is not going to stand on the outside- Royce has a good enough striking game and this time to pop that Ginormous Dome if it stays still too long.
I'll let you choose what Tito you get- I'd take vs Shamrock 1
JimJ77 Can't make it up said 07/12, 09:31 PM
I'd take Tito anytime from UFC 25 until that Spike free card where he dismantled Ken Shamrock once again.
This fight looks like the Hughes-Royce Gracie fight but much, much worse for Royce.
Tito would not fear Royce standing at all, and on the ground it would be Tito on top in Royce's guard dropping hammers on Royce's head, trying to plow his head through the canvas.
I'm a big Royce Gracie fan but this fight would be totally unfair, and after they might have to bring charges against Tito for manslaughter.
No way do I see Royce winning a decision against Tito, and his only path to victory would be a sub. Problem is Tito has good sub defense and would be way too strong and technical for Royce to submit from bottom.
Considering the 1st round is 10 minutes long, I highly doubt Royce makes it out of the 1st, so I'll have to say Tito Ortiz by TKO late in round number 1.
Bloggers Needed said 07/14, 11:53 AM
Tito is a big huge heavy puncher right?
He hit harder than Kimo? He hit harder than Dan Severn?
Tito is just too strong right? Do you really think that Tito is going to be the strongest guy Royce has ever faced?
Tito didn't KO Wandy, when both of his losses to that point were by TKO.
Tito didn't KO Yuki Kondo, who is a natural middleweight
Tito did KO Evan Tanner also a middleweight
Tito didn't KO Elvis Sinosic who was all of 4-3-1 at the time. Elvis has also been taken out by noted KO artists Micheal Bisping and Forrest Griffith- He did get the ground and pound though.
Tito didn't KO Vladimir Matyushenko, who has been been TKO/KO finished in every one of his losses- except Vernon White and . . . Tito
That brings us to Kenny, so there is your "prime"
So in a 5 fight stretch, where TIto was knockin fools out and tapping everyone.
Tito has 2 decisions, 2 stoppages and an actual KO
Lets contrast that with Royce
He's submitted EVERYONE in under 6 minutes, but Dan Severn- who took him almost 16 minutes, and Ken who went to scorecards. True a lesser skill level, but tapping 10 of 11 guys in under 6 minutes
JimJ77 Can't make it up said 07/14, 02:55 PM
I don't know many people who think Tito has heavy hands when standing. But his ground and pound is ferocious.
So your logic is that since Tito only won decisions over 2 top Light Heavyweight fighters in a 5 fight stretch, that he wouldn't win by KO or TKO over Royce, who was 175 Lbs? Ok, doubt it, but lets say he didn't, he'd still win by decision.
You are right about one thing, Tito maybe wouldn't be the strongest fighter Royce has ever faced but he would be the strongest and most technical guy on the ground Royce has ever faced. Well, with the exception of Matt Hughes who weighs 30 lbs less than Tito, and we all saw Matt absolutely crush Royce in a one sided beatdown.
Royce was tapping guys who were mostly stiffs and didn't know what the hell he was doing. Those guys had no idea what BJJ was. Hell, I'd probably tap a few of those guys based on my few BJJ classes.
We all saw what happened when Royce fought a wrestler with very good defensive submission skills when he fought Hughes. The problem for Royce is, he'd be fighting a similar fighter who weighs 30 lbs more than Hughes.
Ortiz would simply take Royce down and batter him until the ref stopped the fight.
Bloggers Needed said 07/17, 01:10 AM
Tito was, and is lacking in the standup, and in the era you want, was even worse. If Tito was unable to take his opponent down, he was a fish out of water.
Of course, see Royce. He also, while better in the GP, was still below average in his striking.
I would say Royce actually had better head movement than Tito, and his giant melon.
Tito can take Royce down, Royce is used to being taken down. Royce has been on his back more than Jenna Ortiz. (Badum-bum) Think Royce isn't used to being beaten on by larger and stronger guys than he is?
Hasn't Royce proven, time and time again that laying on his back throwing up submission after submission against a big dude, is what he does BEST?
Ortiz is a great wrestler, but doesn't have great posture and can be swept.
Royce NEVER panics, has been in this situation a thousand times since he was 3, his first Gi was his diaper, for crying out loud, and nothing Tito can do is something new.
Royce will throw something up that Tito hasn't seen. Name me the HIGH level belt Ju-Ju guys Tito has faced
Royce will find a way. He might be hamburger, but he will outlast, outwit and submit Tito
JimJ77 Can't make it up said 07/17, 11:08 AM
Standup in this fight means squat. Royce wouldn't have the power to hurt Tito on the feet, and even if Royce was getting the better on the feet, Ortiz would simply take Royce down and start his ground and pound assault.
Sorry, but Gracie would be helpless off his back with Tito raining punches down.
Name you the high level belt Ortiz has faced? Sure. Wanderlie Silva, Vitor Beflort, Lyoto Machida, Lil Nog, hell even Rashad Evans. All black belts in BJJ.
I can even give you Forrest Griffin who Ortiz has faced in 3 close fights. Forrest is a black belt under Robert Drysdale. I don't think I have to explain to you who Robert Drysdale is.
All of those guys have a few things in common. They are all legit LHW fighters and all had easily 30-40 pounds on Gracie. And none of those guys were able to submit Ortiz.
In fact, since the timeline I gave you, UFC 25, Tito Ortiz has never been submitted. All while facing high level BJJ players, and all LHW fighters.
Royce Gracie is a pioneer of the sport, but he did it in an era where fighters were simply not that good. Tito was too big, strong, and technical for Gracie, and would win in violent fashion.
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