- 07/23/2012, 02:31PM ET
Clouis_39 said 07/23, 02:31 PM
-UFC 17 Tournament Champion
-Rings King of Kings 2000
-Pride Welterweight Grand Prix Champion
-Pride Welterweight Champion
-Pride Middleweight Champion
-Strikeforce Middleweight Champion
Good Luck to you Hyped, may the best man win.
Hyped78 said 07/25, 06:27 AM
I have all the respect in the world for the other all-time greats of the sport, including the likes of Fedor, Wanderlei, Dan Henderson, GSP, BJ Penn, Matt Hughes, Tito, Chuck Liddell, Royce Gracie, etc.
But, right now, and looking back at 2 decades - give or take - of MMA history, fights and events, Anderson Silva rises above everyone else.
Because he has devastating Muay Thai and was able to surpass the biggest hole in his game, back in the day - BJJ and overall grappling - by starting to train with the Nogueiras.
Because he joined the UFC in 2006. 6 years later he has beaten everyone and cleaned the MW division.
He has even fought as a LHW twice in the UFC, making a former LHW champion seem like an amateur (Forrest).
Because, unlike the new GSP version (since his loss to Matt Serra), Anderson finishes fights. Yes, he had some strange moments with the likes of Thales Leites and Demian Maia, but most of the times he finishes, be it by (T)KO or submission.
Also because he has beaten your choice, Hendo, at UFC 82, thus unifying the UFC and PRIDE belts.
Clouis_39 said 07/25, 02:38 PM
Wise choice Hyped.
Reasons I picked Dan over Anderson:
Only one of Dan's losses has come to fighter outside of the top 10 in their division, while all 4 of Anderson's opponents that bested him were outside of the 10.
Championships and Accomplishments
Dan is a Pride FC champion, a Pride Grand Prix champion, won a UFC tournament, the SF LHW Title, and won the perhaps the most talented tournament of all time in the Rings 1999 King of Kings title. Anderson's Shooto and Cage Rage titles don't compare.
Quality of Wins Over the Years
For example, in 2000, Hendo beat Nogeueira, Babalu and Gilbert Yvel while losing only to Wanderlei Silva in Pride. Anderson, contrastingly, beat Jose Barreto and Claudionor Fontinelle (who the hell are they) while losing to Luiz Azerado.
"He (Anderson) even fought at LHW twice in the UFC
A poor talking point to pick against Dan Henderson, who has fought the best at 185, he has gone up to 205 to fight Calvalcante, Franklin, and Shogun, all of whom are higher caliber opponents than Irvin and Griffin. Dan even went to Heavyweight to fight, and beat the greatest HW of all time in Fedor.
Hyped78 said 07/26, 11:37 AM
I picked Anderson Silva because he is the most dominant champion in the history of MMA.
And people need to ask themselves: has Henderson ever been a dominant champion? Not even close to Anderson's curriculum at the top.
All the respect for Hendo, but we need to get some facts straight.
Talking about losses - and let us not forget that Spider finished Hendo - you can't really look at Anderson's losses that way.
He had 2 legit losses and then one DQ (Okami) in a fight he was clearly dominating (and then beat him in the recent rematch, so no questions there), and a decision loss in his 3rd MMA fight, 11 years ago!
Then, for some reason, you compare both fighters' records in 2000? You picked one specific year, 11 years ago, to compare them? By the way, when you say that Henderson beat Lil Nog... he also lost to both Nogs later on.
That 2000 comparison makes no sense.
And was beaten by the likes of Misaki and Arona. And we did see Jake Shields completely outgrappling him in SF.
And I will say this about Hendo: he has been using TRT since 2007, having an exemption. That might mean he has an unfair advantage over other fighters.
Clouis_39 said 07/26, 12:25 PM
Yes, Anderson has been a dominant champion in recent years.
The Greatest of All Time is not a sprint though, it is a marathon.
Both fighters made their debut in 1997, within 10 days of each other in fact. Why wouldn't their careers be judged on a similar timeline?
I don't get this idea that Anderson's early career somehow shouldn't count. You talk about Dan's losses to Arona, a top 5 in Pride at the time, and Misaki, but you don't even try to defend Silva losing to Chonan and Takase.
Why should we just dismiss these terrible losses of Anderson? What exactly about his decision loss to Azerado is not legit?
"when you say that Henderson beat Lil Nog"
And you say I need to get my facts straight.
Dan didn't beat Rogerio, the light heavyweight, he beat Rodrigo Nogueira, the second greatest heavyweight of all time. I'm not sure what kind of revisionist history your working off of here, but Lil' Nog wasn't even fighting in 2000.
And there is a lot of new emerging research that Dan's hormonal imbalance might be caused by head trauma, not illegal actions.
Hyped78 said 07/27, 11:42 AM
I compare the entire careers of both fighters. It is you who decided to focus only on their early careers and in 2000 specifically.
Why did you fail to mention that Anderson Silva has been a very dominant champion in the biggest MMA organization for close to 6 years and running?
His last legit loss was almost 8 years ago?
And what has Dan Henderson been doing during that timeframe?
Hendo lost both his bouts for PRIDE belt unification, to Anderson and Rampage. Went to Strikeforce, back to UFC again. No championships.
Oh, that's why you only focused on their early years and in 2000 specifically. Because the last 11 years don't back up your argument for Hendo, or at least less than for the Spider.
About the TRT emerging research, there is much more research showing that TRT exemption for MMA fighters is mostly BS and that TRT is an anabolic steroid that gives a fighter an unfair advantage.
So yes, like Overeem, Duffee, Marquardt and others, I believe Hendo's record to be tainted. At least not 100% transparent.
Ask yourselves: 20 years from now, who will the fighter most talked about, Silva or Hendo?
No doubt it's Anderson Silva.
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