- 07/24/2012, 03:29PM ET
wanna get blank!!! said 07/24, 03:29 PM
Ok Marlins fan started a TD about Ichiro which created alot of good discussions. However there are some crazy people which I hope one of them accepts this that say Ichiro is overratted, or he is a border line HOF or he isnt going to get in on the 1st try. so here we go.
Ichiro will be a 1st ballot HOF when its all said and done. BOOM!!!
fvkasm2x said 07/24, 03:48 PM
Ichiro is overrated IMO. However, he is still a great player and will definitely be in the HOF. On the right team during his prime, he would have been a force to reckon with.
Not on the 1st ballot though.
Some reasons why:
1) No playoff heroics. In fact, when his career is completely over... he will have barely ever been to the playoffs.
Does that mean a lot? Not really... it takes a team to get there. But it is a small factor that comes into play
2) Some people are still "annoyed" that he won ROY with all his Japanese experience, his age, etc... He wasn't a true rookie. Some people still hate the fact that he won
3) No RBI, no HR, no SLG%, etc...
No power numbers. No run production.
Now of course that's a fraction of what comes into play for voting, but some people will still say he was "only a slap hitting singles batter."
Of course, his OBP is pretty lame even with all those hits. Not many walks.
His offensive win % is lower than guys like Gary Sheffield and Bobby Abreu
His OBP% is lower than Brian Giles'
He wasn't "dominant" enough to be a 1st ballot guy.
wanna get blank!!! said 07/24, 05:33 PM
I knew you were going to use powerhitting in your arg. but good thing its called the HOF not Hall of Sluggers
People may hate on that ROY award, but he still took MVP that yr
-10 straight 200 hit seasons (longest streak by any player)
-Single season hit record (262)
-2005 Fastest player ever to 1,000 hits
-AL Record Consecutive Stolen Bases (45)
-10?? All-Star (2001???2010)
-10?? Gold Glove Award (2001???2010)
-3?? Silver Slugger Award (2001, 2007, 2009)
-2?? AL Batting Champion (2001, 2004)
-2001 AL MVP
-2001 AL Rookie of the Year
-2001 AL Stolen Base Champion
-2007 All-Star Game MVP
-2009 Second-fastest to 2,000 hits
- first-ever inside-the-park home run in a All-star game
10straight Gold Gloves means he is one of the best defensive right fielders of all-time
Not alot of playoff exp. bc the Mariners suck but look at the WBC when Japan won2006 For the tournament, Ichiro had 12hits including a home run, seven runs, and four stolen bases 2009 game-winning 2run single in the final of the 2009WBC
to many accomplishments not to be 1st ballot
fvkasm2x said 07/24, 06:17 PM
I'm not saying a player needs power numbers to get in. Not everyone can bash HR, nor should they.
I'm talking about run production, OBP, etc... those things, along with the other factors I mentioned will come into play.
1st ballot HOF are very rare, even among the all time greats. Consider this:
- In the past 66 years, only 39 players have made it on the 1st ballot.
Want to see some of the names who DIDN'T make the HOF on the 1st ballot?
Let's face it. Sometimes voters do stupid things and not just in sports (I'll stop short of getting political here, lol)
All of the guys mentioned above have just as many (or more) professional accolades as Ichrio. They still didn't get in 1st ballot.
Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Teddy Ballgame and more were 1st ballot... but didn't get unanimous votes. People actually left these guys off their ballot. You don't think the same will happen to Ichiro?
wanna get blank!!! said 07/24, 08:07 PM
I also dont want to get into politics but the voters have changed over time things arent based on the same subjects.
so you want to talk about run production and ops, he is a leadoff hitter hes not there for rbis although hes a career 324 with risp and 393 with the bases loaded. Also he has a career 366 obp thats 33rd among active players.
voters will also take into consideration what hes done for the sport worldwide the millions of fans he has brought to the sport.
322BA (47th alltime)
2534 hits and counting hes a durable player never played less than 157games in a yr (Ironman) and hes a great contact hitter 8th active (ab per SO)he will get those 3000 hits
439SB (54th alltime) 30plus SB every yr so he should get another 100-150 SB
4th youngest to 2500hits
only postseason 421BA 488 OBP
Mariners alltime hits leader
People also always talk about his hitting but hardly his glove one of the best
10yrs he was the best at his position in the AL .991 fielding% (5th alltime) only 33 career errors
its a shame he was so loyal to seattle had he played for a bigtime club he would have some serious alltime numbers
fvkasm2x said 07/25, 01:59 PM
"he has a career 366 obp thats 33rd among active players."
You do realize that this stat you used to SUPPORT your argument is actually damaging to it, right? That's not very good at all. That means there are 32 active players better than him at getting on base. This doesn't make him 1st ballot material.
Especially after you state that his career avg is .322 (which IS good). An OBP of .366 with that Avg is terrible.
Also... if you think Ichiro is going to get another 150 SB before he retires, you are drunk and/or high on bath salts.
And why are you talking about his post season averages? He's made the playoffs once. Big sample size you have there.
Ichiro has a career .783 OPS. Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn posted .858 and .847 OPS. Are they 1st ballot too?
Last year he hit .273 and so far this year he's hitting .263 so they guy is declining at a rapid pace. The short porch in NY will help him, but not enough to bring him back up to good numbers. He's probably close to done.
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