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  • 07/24/2012, 03:29PM ET

ichiro 1st ballot HOF???

wanna get blank!!! (5-4-2) vs fvkasm2x (193-58-12)
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Ok Marlins fan started a TD about Ichiro which created alot of good discussions. However there are some crazy people which I hope one of them accepts this that say Ichiro is overratted, or he is a border line HOF or he isnt going to get in on the 1st try. so here we go.








Ichiro will be a 1st ballot HOF when its all said and done. BOOM!!!


Ichiro is overrated IMO. However, he is still a great player and will definitely be in the HOF. On the right team during his prime, he would have been a force to reckon with.

Not on the 1st ballot though.

Some reasons why:

1) No playoff heroics. In fact, when his career is completely over... he will have barely ever been to the playoffs.

Does that mean a lot? Not really... it takes a team to get there. But it is a small factor that comes into play

2) Some people are still "annoyed" that he won ROY with all his Japanese experience, his age, etc... He wasn't a true rookie. Some people still hate the fact that he won

3) No RBI, no HR, no SLG%, etc...

No power numbers. No run production.

Now of course that's a fraction of what comes into play for voting, but some people will still say he was "only a slap hitting singles batter."

Of course, his OBP is pretty lame even with all those hits. Not many walks.

His offensive win % is lower than guys like Gary Sheffield and Bobby Abreu

His OBP% is lower than Brian Giles'

He wasn't "dominant" enough to be a 1st ballot guy.


I knew you were going to use powerhitting in your arg. but good thing its called the HOF not Hall of Sluggers
People may hate on that ROY award, but he still took MVP that yr

records
-10 straight 200 hit seasons (longest streak by any player)
-Single season hit record (262)
-2005 Fastest player ever to 1,000 hits
-AL Record Consecutive Stolen Bases (45)

other accomplishments
-10?? All-Star (2001???2010)
-10?? Gold Glove Award (2001???2010)
-3?? Silver Slugger Award (2001, 2007, 2009)
-2?? AL Batting Champion (2001, 2004)
-2001 AL MVP
-2001 AL Rookie of the Year
-2001 AL Stolen Base Champion
-2007 All-Star Game MVP
-2009 Second-fastest to 2,000 hits
- first-ever inside-the-park home run in a All-star game

10straight Gold Gloves means he is one of the best defensive right fielders of all-time

Not alot of playoff exp. bc the Mariners suck but look at the WBC when Japan won2006 For the tournament, Ichiro had 12hits including a home run, seven runs, and four stolen bases 2009 game-winning 2run single in the final of the 2009WBC

to many accomplishments not to be 1st ballot


I'm not saying a player needs power numbers to get in. Not everyone can bash HR, nor should they.

I'm talking about run production, OBP, etc... those things, along with the other factors I mentioned will come into play.

1st ballot HOF are very rare, even among the all time greats. Consider this:

- In the past 66 years, only 39 players have made it on the 1st ballot.

Want to see some of the names who DIDN'T make the HOF on the 1st ballot?

Joe DiMaggio
Cy Young
Rogers Hornsby
Yogi Berra
Lefty Grove
Eddie Mathews
Harmon Killebrew
Tris Speaker
Juan Marichal
Pie Traynor
Dizzy Dean

Let's face it. Sometimes voters do stupid things and not just in sports (I'll stop short of getting political here, lol)

All of the guys mentioned above have just as many (or more) professional accolades as Ichrio. They still didn't get in 1st ballot.

Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Teddy Ballgame and more were 1st ballot... but didn't get unanimous votes. People actually left these guys off their ballot. You don't think the same will happen to Ichiro?


I also dont want to get into politics but the voters have changed over time things arent based on the same subjects.

so you want to talk about run production and ops, he is a leadoff hitter hes not there for rbis although hes a career 324 with risp and 393 with the bases loaded. Also he has a career 366 obp thats 33rd among active players.

voters will also take into consideration what hes done for the sport worldwide the millions of fans he has brought to the sport.

322BA (47th alltime)
2534 hits and counting hes a durable player never played less than 157games in a yr (Ironman) and hes a great contact hitter 8th active (ab per SO)he will get those 3000 hits
439SB (54th alltime) 30plus SB every yr so he should get another 100-150 SB
4th youngest to 2500hits
only postseason 421BA 488 OBP
Mariners alltime hits leader

People also always talk about his hitting but hardly his glove one of the best
10yrs he was the best at his position in the AL .991 fielding% (5th alltime) only 33 career errors

its a shame he was so loyal to seattle had he played for a bigtime club he would have some serious alltime numbers


"he has a career 366 obp thats 33rd among active players."

You do realize that this stat you used to SUPPORT your argument is actually damaging to it, right? That's not very good at all. That means there are 32 active players better than him at getting on base. This doesn't make him 1st ballot material.

Especially after you state that his career avg is .322 (which IS good). An OBP of .366 with that Avg is terrible.

Also... if you think Ichiro is going to get another 150 SB before he retires, you are drunk and/or high on bath salts.

And why are you talking about his post season averages? He's made the playoffs once. Big sample size you have there.

Ichiro has a career .783 OPS. Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn posted .858 and .847 OPS. Are they 1st ballot too?

Last year he hit .273 and so far this year he's hitting .263 so they guy is declining at a rapid pace. The short porch in NY will help him, but not enough to bring him back up to good numbers. He's probably close to done.

Comment #1 has been removed
July 24, 2012  03:49 PM ET

10 straight years of 200 hits and Gold Gloves.

ROY, MVP..

No brainer if you ask me, (I know, no one did) but I'm interested to read fvcasm's take.

Comment #3 has been removed
July 24, 2012  03:49 PM ET

I'm assuming Cooperstown

July 24, 2012  03:50 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

You need to be more clear. WHAT hall of fame? The Japanese one? MLB? Your pathetic little argument leaves so much room for interpretation. For an OF occupying a position usually designated for a power hitter, Ichiro has a rather disappointing OPS+ of 113. That's lower than Matt Stairs. And for a speedy leadoff batter, he scored on average less than 100 runs per year.

Simmer down, Roy

July 24, 2012  03:51 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

And for a speedy leadoff batter, he scored on average less than 100 runs per year.

You need the guys behind you to drive you in...Hard to steal home.

Admittedly, Ichiro's OPB isn't very good. He isn't a fan of walks apparently.

July 24, 2012  03:53 PM ET

If I'm around when this is done I'll post my two cents.

Comment #8 has been removed
July 24, 2012  03:54 PM ET
QUOTE(#6):

You need the guys behind you to drive you in...Hard to steal home.Admittedly, Ichiro's OPB isn't very good. He isn't a fan of walks apparently.

At the same time, he's been the hardest player in the Majors to strike out.

Comment #10 has been removed
July 24, 2012  03:55 PM ET

Not to mention his record in for most hits in a season (254) breaking Sislers 84 year-old record.

Comment #12 has been removed
July 24, 2012  04:02 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

His OBP AND SLG aren't HOF worthy.

His .322 life time average is.

July 24, 2012  04:03 PM ET

The Hall of FAME is more than just stats. Stats are just numbers you know. Ichiro was a great player, definitely HOF worthy, and Roy disagreeing further proves the point.

Ichiro was a great ambassador for the game. He brought millions of Japanese fans with him.

July 24, 2012  04:07 PM ET

???season Hits
season H record ---------------------------------262 (Ichiro)
season H 200+ times record -----------------10 (Ichiro,Rose)
season H 200+ consecutive record --------10 (Ichiro)
season H leader times record -----------------8 (Cobb)
season H leader consecutive record --------5 (Ichiro)
H 162 game AVG record ---------------------229 (Ichiro)

July 24, 2012  04:07 PM ET

???season Hits
season H record ---------------------------------262 (Ichiro)
season H 200+ times record -----------------10 (Ichiro,Rose)
season H 200+ consecutive record --------10 (Ichiro)
season H leader times record -----------------8 (Cobb)
season H leader consecutive record --------5 (Ichiro)
H 162 game AVG record ---------------------229 (Ichiro)

July 24, 2012  04:10 PM ET

Ichiro lost 7 years of his prime playing in Japan. (lost on us anyway)

His hit numbers would be unbelievable.

July 24, 2012  04:11 PM ET

Normally I wouldn't be listing this much stuff in a young TD, but I highly doubt left will but up any arguments longer than or more illuminating than his first paragraph.

Comment #19 has been removed
 
Comment #20 has been removed

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