- 08/18/2012, 10:02AM ET
80480: Cruzin said 08/18, 10:02 AM
I am gonna go with Todd Frazier
Nobody has really notice guy until this coming week but if you look at his stat line and what he has done for his team, he definitely should be in contention for the award.
He has a .286 AVG and .344 OBP which are respectfully fourth and fifth in the NL Rookie category both above Bryce Harpers numbers. What really stands out with Frazier though is his power numbers as a rookie. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's are either first or second in the category.
He also is either first or second in OPS or SLG for the NL Rookies. Frazier also has the best WAR for any rookies wit a 2.5 mark. Which is nearly a game more then Harpers.
Harper also is able to have a couple off days and get away with is because of his great team, in important series for him this year this is what he has done.
@Cinci in May: 2-14 with 4 K's but team still wins 2 games
vs NYY in June: 3-15 with 6 K's don't win anything
vs Atl in July: 3-12 with 2 K's win 2 games
at SF in Aug: 2-14 with 3 K's win 2 games
See in Washington your pitching can bail you out but in Cinci its all on the hitter back to win the game especially with Joey Votto out.
Bundyrocksalot said 08/18, 02:17 PM
If you were arguing MVP, then your stat list would be accurate, and I could see where your guy would win the award. However, we are going to debate Rookie of the Year. This award has typically gone to the player that the media loves. In this case it would be Bryce Harper.
I want to touch on your statement. "Harper also is able to have a couple days off and (gets a way with it) because of his great team." Being the Rookie of the Year has nothing to do with what kind of team you are on...again that is usually reserved for MVP voting. Besides that, Harper has not even taken a day off. He has played 96 games already, and is on pace to play 131 games, this after missing the first month and a half of the season from playing in the minors.
We can compare numbers all day long between who has the better average? Who has more Home Runs? and Who has more RBI's? It all is irellevant, the Rookie of the Year voters have a man crush on Bryce Harper, so he is going to win it. He was selected to the All Star Game, and is always the topic of discussion every time the Nationals play. Yes, the Nats could win without Harper, but again, this is not an MVP race, its Rookie of the Year.
80480: Cruzin said 08/18, 02:43 PM
Yes, the media does love Harper more then Frazier, but Frazier is also a type of feel good story. A guy who is not getting any attention and leads the Reds into the playoffs when Votto goes down with a injury.
Harper on the other hand has a huge ego, some love it but you have to think about how many ball parks he has gone into and gotten booed. People hate him to, nobody can hate a guy like Frazier or Miley.
The good MLB fans will also look at the stats which everything goes in Frazier's favor, he has kept the Reds hot and helped get a good lead over Pittsburgh getting them in the playoffs, the Nationals would be in the exact same place without Harper.
You can't just put Harper as ROY because he is a favorite over Frazier, people have been looking at Frazier recently and have been noticing him sky rocket. He is getting a lot of credit now and if he keeps up the work his name will be on a lot of headlines.
Harper has been the phenom but its starting to wear off because he's not really that good yet, he probably should still be in the minors. I think by the end of the season people will get a even clearer view that Frazier's the better player.
Bundyrocksalot said 08/18, 03:36 PM
Bryce Harper is Major League ready. The kid is 19 years old. Any rookie is going to have a learning curve, and slumps are one of them.
Harper has a huge ego? I have not noticed it, and I follow baseball pretty regularly. Again this goes back to the fact that he is a 19 year old kid having fun. Most Rookies in baseball do not have the experience to realize the business aspect of the game. Harper is in that category.
Now back to the voting. I don't think you understand the concept of Rookie of the Year voting. Does Frazier deserve to be in consideration? Absolutely he does. Most people outside of Cincinnati do not have a clue who this kid is. Same goes for Wade Miley, not many outside of Arizona knows who he is. He is having an impressive year, and that is why he is my number 2. It does not matter how valuable you are to your team, its what the media thinks of you come voting time.
Case in point...1995, Hideo Nomo won the NL Rookie of the Year award over Chipper Jones, he did have a good season, but Chipper Jones IMO was the Rookie of the Year that year. Nomo was the media hype that season, and he won the award.
80480: Cruzin said 08/19, 10:26 AM
That was is 1995, you can't put stats from the 90's into a competition now. People are getting smarted and as you said not many people know Frazier and Miley, true, but there names are coming up more and more in the highlights now and people are starting to catch on.
Also, if Frazier/Miley keep this up, how do you think the media is gonna just avoid them if they are having 25+ HR 75 RBI's at the end of the season, not many do that as a rookie. He will get attention as he keeps on playing while Harper will be going at the same steady pace.
Huge Ego?? I have seen the stuff he did at the minor league level with ejections and such. He argues a bunch of pointless balls and strikes to try and make himself look like a bigger player, he broke a bat and cut himself... **** idiot. He may not have a huge ego but he annoys me, and I know many outside of Washington hate him at the same rate as not knowing Frazier/Miley.
I know you logic makes since but it won't last, Harper is slumping and he truly isn't that great yet, throw a curveball at him and that kid is hitting .200. Frazier covers the whole plate and already is looking like a veteran half way through the season
Bundyrocksalot said 08/19, 11:02 AM
You contadicted yourself in your third paragraph. Sounds like you are completely anti Bryce Harper. You think breaking bats makes someone have a big ego? No sir, that makes someone very competitive, and what is wrong with that?
I would like to see the stats where Harper is hitting .200 when thrown a curveball. I know that there are some wierd wacky stats out there, but that is not one of them, (Batting average when thrown a curve ball). How does that compare with other big leaguers? A lot of people struggle to hit a curveball, that is why a pitcher sometimes may have an advantage.
You say that Harper is not that great yet. Can the Nationals win without Harper? I would say yes. So tell me, if he is not that great, why is he still in the majors? He is good enough, he is just going through a slump. You put some stats together in your first argument about a few series' that Harper was not that productive. You mention four series in particular. Its not like Harper went 0-for the series.
Point is, Harper is going to be Rookie of the Year and I will not have a problem with that what-so-ever. I could see your point in an MVP race, but not ROY.
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