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- 08/26/2012, 12:38PM ET
What is worse?
Argos. said 08/26, 12:38 PM
We all have known that Lance has cheated for a while now. But my question is, what is worse, him taking PEDs or him getting blood transfusions during rest days of the Tour?
I have to go with the latter of the two.
First, cycling is a dirty sport. Many riders take PEDs, and nearly all the top riders did during Lance Armstrong's era. All his teammates during the era have all admitted to taking them as well.
So the competitive edge provided via PEDs would be much smaller. However, blood transfusions during off days of the Tour give Lance a huge advantage.
First off, it is incredibly costly to do, and Lance would have been the only rider to likely afford it. Plus, nobody else, beside ex-Lance teammates, ever get accused of doing this.
But blood transfusions help performance in endurance events incredibly. Normally the body would be dead tired in the middle of the Tour during an off-day, but a blood transfusion gives him a new boast and would make him feel as fresh and energized as he did at the start. It would prevent him from tiring. This is why Lance was so strong in the latter half of the Tour.
This gave him a big competitve edge, and is worse than drugs.
HighwayCrossingFrog said 08/26, 05:13 PM
Neil Armstrong dying was the worst:)
first I want to address a couple of points here..
To me, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE for Lance to have 7 Tour de France's stripped away from him..
He passed Every single urine test, PERIOD!
That is the end of the story, in my books..
The only thing they have on Lance, is when people get busted for drugs, like Hamilton and Floyd Landis, they say, oh well, Lance was doing it too..
To me, someones word of mouth, is not reliable enough to take away 7 titles..
You need concrete evidence..
You can not throw someone in jail for 27 years for murder, without concrete evidence..
And to me, in my honest opinion..
Lets say hypothetically Lance WAS taking performance enhancing drugs.
SO WHAT?
Basso, Pantini and Jan Ullrich, arguably Lance's greatest rivals during this time frame.
Guess what?
All 3 of them got busted for taking drugs.
To me, if everyone was doing it, which sounds like they were.
Then everyone was on an even playing field.
Sounds fair to me.
And guess what?
The guys that are not taking illegal substances.
They are taking something very very similar.
We are talking about barely legal
Argos. said 08/26, 09:59 PM
Way to get off topic by arguing he didn't use...
Urine tests don't test for much. And it is next to impossible to test for blood transfusions, especially if you have a really good doctor.
Ten witnesses is not enough evidence for you? His ex-doctor being banned from sport for drugs? His entire team admitting to using steroids and blood transfusions? What about all the suppressed positive tests? He finally gave up his fight because there was too much evidence against him, and he did not want it to all go public in an expensive court battle.
Back on topic, Lance's three greatest rivals being busted for drugs is why blood transfusions are the key. They didn't get the transfusions, and therefore couldn't keep up with Lance as the Tour ran on. Lance taking the drugs was not so bad, because everyone was.
However, it was not an even playing field, sure everyone was on drugs but only Lance and a few of his teammates were getting the transfusions.
Lance was a notorious slow starter for the Tour, but always picked it up and was able to keep his pace after rest days and improve. The blood transfusions were the reason why.
HighwayCrossingFrog said 08/27, 05:57 PM
sorry GROWN UP:)
Blood transfusions are relatively harmless..
Sure, it gives you a noice advantage over fellow competitors..
But Im sure, if a dude got in a bad car accident, sometimes, they accidentally give the patient too much blood..
I have never heard of anyone dying from a blood transfusion..
But, in terms of performance enhancing drugs, being bad for your health..
Yes its pretty horrible..
Those drugs can mess up your kidneys, liver, vital body organs etc etc..
These cyclists are pretty nuts to begin with.
Anyone that is capable of enduring that much pain. "something isnt sitting right":)
Jan Ulrich got busted with ecstasy at a German night club.
Pantini, the only real guy that could go toe to toe with Lance in the mountains.
Pantini die of an overdose of cocaine.
So, dont be surprised, when these crazies take extreme measures to try to win
I dont know if testostorone counts as a performance enhancing drug.
But,
Floyd Landis's final mountain stage victory on testostorone, was one of the most jaw dropping performances I have ever seen.
Especially considering his body failed him, the day before in the mountains
Argos. said 08/29, 09:26 AM
They are relatively harmless and safe, but are still illegal in the sport of cycling because it is not natural and they give you a massive advantage! They are against the rules of cycling and all endurance sports, and that is all that matter.
It is not just a small advantage like you play it off to be. You go from being dead tired and weak, to feeling as fresh as you were on Day 1. It is like instead of getting one rest day, you get an entire rest week.
Sure, PED can screw up your health by giving you problems such as cancer, but in the terms of an endurance race, this is not as big of a deal as blood transfusions. You still have to work out and train incredible while on PEDs to get in such great shape and build muscle and stamina. Anyone can get a blood transfusion, and then feel 100% and full of stamina.
I don't know why you are talking about cocaine or Floyd Landis here. The only time Floyd Landis' name should be mentioned in this topic is about him ratting Lance out and when he said that blood transfusions are only taken by a few riders because they are so expensive and hard to get....
Blood transfusions are worse.
HighwayCrossingFrog said 08/29, 12:54 PM
If I was a cyclist and I wanted a competitive advantage..
I would lean towards performance enhancing drugs..
Landis AND Vinokourov BOTH Had performances for the ages, by these drugs..
Tyler Hamilton, who got busted for blood doping, never really did anything special..
I know he won olympic gold in a time trial..
BUT
Like you said, the blood transfusion ONLY gives you a competitive advantage in a 21 stage race..
Where you want fresh blood, to feel fresh, like you did on stage 1..
But with the olympics, guys have that fresh feeling going into it, so it wouldnt really do much..
Yeah, if I wanted olympic gold, I would definitely want the stuff that Vinokourov got busted with!
BUT
Realistically, I would rather do the blood transfusions, only cause its harder to get busted..
But I just dont see any convincing argument, that the blood transfusions are capable of giving you a massive advantage, compared to performance enhancing drugs..
Bottom line
blood transfusions = feeling as fresh as a daisy..
Performance enhancing drugs = superman on crack!!!
Fun TD,
see ya around Argos..
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Comments (31) Add A Comment
I don't know anything about blood transfusions and their impact on an athletes' performance.
Interesting topic.
(Un) i like cheese
Inferiority Complex Group, FN
Total Comments (16140)
I didn't either, but I read a bit on "blood doping" and it's interesting stuff. Take a look
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2120)
Blood transfusions are not really that expensive and pretty much any elite rider could afford to do it. It's basically just the hassle involved and it helps greatly if the team doctor(s) and other staff are in on it since there are the obvious requirements of proper and sanitary collection, storage, and reinjection to avoid health risks or contamination.
Basically you just extract a pint of blood (like you would at a blood donor clinic). Then you let your body recover for a couple weeks and build its own blood levels back up. Then you reinject your own blood back into yourself so that your blood is superoxygenated so your muscle endurance goes way up.
EPO (another drug that Lance is accused of using regularly) though is very expensive.
It's basically a hormone that tricks the body into producing extra red blood cells so that blood transfusions aren't needed. They did develop tests to detect EPO though so now many endurance athletes (especially cyclists and boxers) have switched back to old-school transfusions that were very popular in the 80s and 90s (and the transfusions are essentially undetectable when you use your own blood, although athletes have been caught when using other people's blood of the same blood type).
YODA
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (7420)
I don't know how you pass 500 drug tests and STILL can be labeled a cheater. They should give him awards for being the smartest cheater on the planet
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2120)
He was dominating guys who were cheating. How?
Assassin: Simile…
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ie: Carl Lewis?
red hunter
Fargo , ND
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Everything I have read or heard (mostly from Floyd Landis on 60 minutes and Nightline) says it is very expensive. I guess the actual process isn't expensive because it is your own blood from before, so you can take that for free. But the process of withdrawing it, storing it, and injecting it I was lead to believe is very expensive. I believe Lance Armstrong even flew out on his private jet on rest days on occasion to go to either Switzerland or Italy.
I'm trying to find the exact quote that I saw with Landis saying that the really good and riders who can afford it use blood transfusions but the riders who can't just take drugs. Figures now that I want it, I can't find it!!!
Argos.
Total Comments (5415)
Blood transfusions are next to impossible to test for, because it is just putting new blood into you. There is some way to test because something in your blood goes up or down (don't know exactly what).
But the better your doctor the easier it is to get away with it I hard, and Armstrong had the best (Ferrari). He was also friends with the head doctor who was in charge of drug testing for the Tour.
Argos.
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+1
Argos.
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Cheating better.
Argos.
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And we thought having one testicle was bad enough...
DetroitFan*: It Is?!
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