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  • 10/30/2012, 02:54PM ET

Dennis Rodman is one of the 50 greatest basketball players of all time.

CJ H. (0-2-1) vs Hyped78 (222-22-6)
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First off, let's define "great." If you are great, then you are extremely, extremely, extremely, valuable to your team.

Dennis Rodman was definitely valuable to the Pistons, Bulls, and Spurs.

Michael Jordan has said, "defense wins championships." Dennis definitely fitted this category. I have seen him guard Magic Johnson and I have also seen him guard Shaquille O'Neal.

Dennis was a back to back defensive player of the year award winner (1990 and 1991).

He was a 7 time all defensive first team placement and a one time all defensive second team placement.

His rebounding was second to none when it comes to power fowards. His rebounds per game average was once 18.7!


This is the least important to me when judging players but I might as well say it. He is also a 5 time NBA champion.


See, the problem isn't whether Rodman was a great player or not. He obviously was a great player, a tremendous rebounder and defender and a guy who mattered to his teams, helping those win championships.

You made that point very clear.

The problem is whether he is good enough to displace other Power Forwards from the Top 50.

More than that, and because comparison across different eras is tricky, the question is how does Rodman stack up in comparison to his contemporary PFs in the top 50.

Rodman was a great defender but also very limited on the offensive side of the game. Would you place him in the top 50 list instead of:

- Charles Barkley
- Larry Bird (SF)
- Karl Malone
- Kevin McHale
- Scottie Pippen (SF)

I don't think so.

Moreover, after the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History" list was voted and announced, other forwards have made their mark in the NBA, while being superior to the Worm. I am thinking of Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett.

Rodman was a tremendous player.

But not a top 50 all-time NBA player.


You're right when you say Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Karl Malone, Kevin McHale, and Scottie Pippen could be put ahead of Rodman.

I disagree with McHale and Pippen though.

Here is the reason why:

In 1988 the Pistons and Rodman won 54 games. They were 20-4 with Rodman in the starting lineup!

In 1990 the Pistons won 59 games. They were 34-9 with Rodman in the starting lineup!

In 1993 the Pistons win 40 games. They go 36-26 with Rodman in starting lineup and 4-20 without him in the starting lineup!

In 1995 the Spurs were 42-7 with Rodman, 20-13 without!

In my opinion when you put up these numbers, you definitely are considered one of the 50 greatest players of all time.

In 1987 (Without Scottie Pippen ) the Bulls were 40-42. In 1988 (With Scottie) they were 50-32. Good improvements but nothing close to Rodman.

McHale was a part in the 1986 Celtics championship but he wasn't badly needed.


I am a Pistons fan, so you can understand that I value what Rodman did in Detroit.

But winning championships and being on winning teams isn't all that matters. See Horry, Robert.

What you are basically saying is that you would take out Pippen of the Top 50, to place in Rodman, if it came to that?

I disagree.

Pippen has a clearly superior career to that of Rodman.

7-time All-Star vs 2-time.

7-time All-NBA vs 2-time.

You highlighted Rodman's defense. He was an 8-time All-defense. Well, Pippen was a 10-time All-defense.

And, of course, you also mentioned Rodman's championships. They were 5. Pippen won 6.

On the other hand, you would also take McHale out of the top 50 to place in Rodman, if it came to that?

7-time All-Star vs 2-time. McHale was a 6-time all-defense himself.

Rodman's scoring average was 7.3 PPG. A great rebounder but not exactly an elite scorer. McHale scored almost 18 PPG for his career (17.9, to be exact).

There's a reason why Rodman was only called to the All-star game twice. Because he was an elite defender and rebounder but not an elite all-around player.

Certainly not elite enough to be Top 50, ahead of Pippen and McHale.


I put Rodman ahead of Scottie but that doesn't mean Scottie is out of the top 50.

In fact, I would put Scottie just 2 or 3 spots behind Rodman.

I would put Rodman ahead of McHale but only a couple spots away.

You compared Scottie's defense with Rodman.

Scottie could guard point guards, shooting guards, and small fowards.

Rodman could guard point guards, shooting guards, small fowards, power fowards, and centers.

This proves he is a more versatile defender.

The reason I believe Rodman should be in the top 50 is because of his winning.

You saw the statistics above. When Rodman was playing, his team tremendously improved. When you contribute this much to a team there is no doubt in my mind you should be in the top 50.

I dont care if Scottie or McHale could score. I want people who can contribute to the team the most. Im sure McHale and Scottie would contribute to any team but Dennis was amazing when it comes to contributing to a team.

Dennis Rodman deserves to be in the top 50.


You don't care about scoring and you failed to say who, then, would you take out of the Top 50.

You can't have a Top 50 with 51 players, and seeing as though you you wouldn't take McHale or Pippen out of the Top 50, you simply failed to state whose place would Rodman take.

Tim Duncan?

Dr. J?

Karl Malone?

Charles Barkley?

I guess we will never know.

Yes, Rodman contributed.

But he was also the 3rd player in the Pistons roster, behind Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.

And he was the 3rd player in the Bulls roster, behind Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen (regardless of you thinking that Rodman was better than Pippen).

A great player and contributor, no doubt, but not good enough for a Top 50 all-time, especially if compared to the other guys who were actually selected to that list.

Being an elite defender doesn't mean you are an elite all-around player, and that much is certainly true with Rodman for his entire career.

His offensive limitations prevent him from having a place in the Top 50.

Comment #1 has been removed
October 30, 2012  05:01 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

pretty strong grounds to call him the best rebounder of all time. +obvious defensive awesomeness.

I said, "when it comes to power fowards." Not centers. Wilt and Russell are definitely better rebounders

Comment #3 has been removed
October 30, 2012  05:22 PM ET
QUOTE(#3):

what i meant by pretty strong grounds is that your statement that his rebounding was #1 was accurate.

thanks

October 30, 2012  06:51 PM ET

I wouldnt argue the Pippen angle, he is so much better then Rodman

Comment #6 has been removed
October 30, 2012  11:43 PM ET

Rodman was weird, but he always understood his role & did it well. He is Top 50.

October 31, 2012  03:01 AM ET
QUOTE(#5):

I wouldnt argue the Pippen angle, he is so much better then Rodman

Agreed.

Although personally I was more of a Rodman fan than a Pippen fan, though. Pippen always kinda seemed like a punk to me, I don't know. And I saw Rodman with the Spurs several times, so I'm somewhat biased towards Rodman but I still wouldn't argue him over Pippen.

October 31, 2012  08:57 AM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Well, forwards are 2/5 of a basketball team. So in a top 50 there would be about 20 or so, not 5 or so. Surely there is room for defense, boards, and general craziness somewhere in 50 spots. IMO you let yourself get misdirected by arguing the mchale, pippen angle whether or not it is a valid argument.What makes Rodman's rebounding absurd was that he didnt just get those numbers by grabbing defensive boards over teammates. He got tonsssss of offensive rebounds. I've always had a soft spot for players like Rodman who aren't big scoring stars, but do what they do better than any other. You could basically say anything and have my vote mr. CJ.

Yes, 20 or so. But I also emphasized that I am comparing Rodman to the other forwards that played in the same era.

Or else I would have to factor in the likes of Dr. J and the TD wouldn't end :)

October 31, 2012  08:58 AM ET
QUOTE(#6):

You could basically say anything and have my vote mr. CJ.

So you're not voting on the arguments?

October 31, 2012  09:03 AM ET
QUOTE(#10):

So you're not voting on the arguments?

Welcome to the new FN Hyped

Comment #12 has been removed
October 31, 2012  10:59 AM ET

"McHale was a part in the 1986 Celtics championship but he wasn't badly needed"

Ridiculous. McHale was essential to that Championship. -------->

October 31, 2012  12:10 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

And it is different, how?

Well; I guess that would need a quantifier. It is definitely different from the days I first logged on 3 years or so ago. But it has been jacked for about a year now, so it might have been more appropriate to say , "Hyped , these ain't the good ol days"

October 31, 2012  02:32 PM ET

far too many exclamation points from left. have to vote right

Comment #16 has been removed
Comment #17 has been removed
Comment #18 has been removed
October 31, 2012  04:27 PM ET

For some reason it is not allowing me to submit an argument. Will try again later.

But to prove I wrote it within the time frame:

I am a Pistons fan, so you can understand that I value what Rodman did in Detroit.

But winning championships and being on winning teams isn't all that matters. See Horry, Robert.

What you are basically saying is that you would take out Pippen of the Top 50, to place in Rodman, if it came to that?

Well, I disagree.

Scottie Pippen has a clearly superior career to that of Rodman.

7-time All-Star vs 2-time.

7-time All-NBA vs 2-time.

You highlighted Rodman's defense. Rodman was an 8-time All-defense. Well, Pippen was a 10-time All-defense.

And, of course, you also mentioned Rodman's championships. They were 5. Pippen won 6.

On the other hand, you would also take McHale out of the top 50 to place in Rodman, if it came to that?

7-time All-Star vs 2-time. And McHale was a 6-time all-defense himself.

Rodman's scoring average was 7.3 PPG. A great rebounder but not exactly an elite scorer. McHale scored almost 18 PPG for his career (17.9, to be exact).

There's a reason why Rodman was only called to the All-star game twice. Because he was an elite defender and rebounder but not an elite all-around player.

Certainly not elite enough to be Top 50, ahead of Pippen or McHale.

 
October 31, 2012  04:28 PM ET

Rodman is a top 5 defender all time BUT he had almost no offense so that drops him out of the top 50 all time players. IMO!!!

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