- 11/21/2012, 08:11AM ET
Save_Me_Jebus: Hello Mr. Luck said 11/21, 08:11 AM
Class of 2013: Who belongs in the Hockey Hall Of Fame?
Seems simple enough, right? Ok good...
Hasn't been much happening right now in the NHL and for that, I'm bored.
Anyway, let's assume this NHL season is lost and then only thing to look forward to
(draft and free agency period not included) is who will be inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 2013.
With all that said here is who should make it;
740 points, 4x Stanley Cup Champ. 2x Olympic Gold Medal winner. 5x All-Star. 1x Conn Smythe trophy winner.
I know, I know, I'm surprised he finally retired too. Chelios is an 11x All-Star, 3 x Cup champion and a 3x Norris Trophy winner. All this accomplished in his illustrious 47 yr career.
640 frikin' goals. That's good enough for 14th place all-time. 274 career power play goals. 38 more than Mario Lemieux.
Pat frikin' Burns; (note; Frikin' may not be his actual middle name)
Was willing to fight Barry Melrose in the 1993 playoffs. So, he deserves it.
Anyone disagree? Please say no. Or whatever...Fine, go ahead, see if I care.
Argos. said 11/21, 11:56 AM
Clearly Niedermayer and Chelios are no brainers. And I'm not taking off Pat Burns, after all, he is the man in my picture on this site.
So that leaves me with my one change. Brandon Shanahan over Dave Andreychuk
Looking quickly at the stats, and you see Shanahan has 656 career goals (16 more), 1354 points (16 more points) in 1524 games (115 less games).
Looking at points per game, and goals per game, Shanahan has the edge in both with 0.89 to 0.69 and 0.43 to 0.39
Then the playoffs. Shanny had 60 goals (17 more) and 134 points (37 more) in 184 games (22 more). He played more playoff games, but also had a clear PPG and GPG advantage.
Also, Shanny won 3 Stanley Cups to Dave's 1 (and Dave only scored 1 goal in the playoff run that he won the Cup) and Internationally, Shanny won an Olympic Gold, Canada Cup, and World Championships (Dave never won anything internationally).
Shanny was in 5 more all-star games, and was a 3 time season end NHL all-star (Dave was never).
Shanny was also a way, way more complete player. He was really physical and mean (only player with 600 goals and 2000 PIM in NHL history) and good defensively. Dave was neither.
Save_Me_Jebus: Hello Mr. Luck said 11/22, 08:26 AM
So Shanahan over Andreychuk because you said so?
It's known that Shanahan played with much better talent than Andreychuk ever did. Sure, Andreychuk played with Gilmour for a few years, but Brendan Shanahan played with guys like Steve Yzerman, Sergei Federov, Brett Hull, Chris Chelios and Peter Stastny to name a few. The best goalie Andreychuk ever had was Martin Brodeur or maybe Darren Puppa.
These players made Shanahan better than he actually was.
"Shanny" and Andreychuk both had two 50 goal seasons.
Yes, Shanahan won 3 Stanley Cups but, it's not like he did it all by himself.
The only award Shanahan ever won was the 2002-03 NHL King Clancy Memorial Trophy.
It's a frikin award for Leadership and Humanitarian Contribution. Shjon frikin' Podein won this award once too. Not sure you can call Shanahan "physical" and "mean" with this award.
Shanahan by most accounts was a fairly dirty player;
Now, while Dave Andreychuk holds no indivdual awards, he does hold the record for most power play goals scored, and for most likely to never leave the front of the opposition's net, ever award.
Argos. said 11/23, 11:54 AM
A link to bleacher report? Anyways...
Shanny played with some great players, but so did Dave. In fact the years he scored 50+ goals, he was on a line with the best player in the world at the time, and his goals were gifted to him by Dougie. Once Dougie was done, Dave was still at his peak at age 31, but sucked.
Sure Dave played a long time, which allowed him to get a lot of career goals and points, but in his last 13 seasons, his career high in points was only 61, and never once cracked 30 goals. Hell only 4 times had over 39 points in his final 13 years.
Most powerplay goals ever is not really a title you brag about. You want to be able to score 5-on-5, those goals are bigger goals because you play most of the game 5-on-5. Yet, Dave barely scored half of his career goals on even strength (55%). Dave was a specialist player.
Dave was never elite. He finished top 10 in goals only twice in his 22 seasons, and only once in top 10 in points. Compare that to Shanny finishing top 10 five times.
Explain to me his terrible playoffs too? Only once did he score more than 5 playoff goals, and that was when Dougie had 25 assists and was gifting goals to his linemates.
Save_Me_Jebus: Hello Mr. Luck said 11/26, 07:25 AM
You're correct in saying that Dave was never elite, but he was very, very good. You can't say he was lucky to score 274 power play goals.
However, you are wrong in saying that Andreychuk achieved most of his numbers only because of Doug Gilmour. In all honesty, what did Dougie do after Andreychuk left? Why are you assuming, he made Andreychuk better? Can you honestly sit there and say "in no way, shape or form, that maybe, just maybe, Dave Andreychuk made Gilmour better"?
In Gilmour's 2 career-best seasons of 127 and 111 points with Andreychuk on his wing, Gilmour???s production was, respectively, 21% higher and 6% better, than the third-best season of his 20-year career. And they were 38% and 22% higher than his fourth-best year.
So exactly who was making who better here?
Hell, Pat Lafontaine's best years were with Dave Andreychuk on his wing.
Who's the common factor?
Dave is 27th all-time in points and 14th all time in goals. Andreychuk has been overlooked in the last few years, but it ends in 2013.
Look, Shanahan had a great career. Yes, he deserves to be in the hall of fame and I am not saying Shanahan won't get in, I just think he will in 2014.
Argos. said 11/27, 01:19 PM
You either have to be elite for a period of time or really good for a long period of time to be in the Hall of Fame. You either have to be like Pavel Bure (really elite for a short period) or Mats Sundin (really good for a long time).
Dave was neither. His last 13 seasons he was garbage. He had about 10 decent seasons, but in a really high scoring era, and only 5 of those 10 would be considered really good (which still maybe a stretch considering the scoring era). But he was never elite, and was not really good long enough.
He was never even good enough to make an international team for Canada (outside the WJC and 1 WC), unlike Shanny who made Canadian teams at the highest levels, including a Canada Cup and 2 Olympics. Shanny is a member of the elite Triple Gold Club! Being the first Canadian to ever do it!
Dave was always known his entire career as being a defensive liability. Dave was really only good in front of the opponents net, and a liability everywhere else on the ice. Shanny was one of the most complete players of his era, not only being so physical, but being great defensively and on the penalty kill.
Shanny is better.
|3||JimJ77 Best in the World!||129||53||26||68.3%|
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